The Footie Thread

[4LEX]

Thought Neville’s comments post match about Rashford and Garnacho were bang on the money.

I’m liking Amorim more by the day. The message to his players is simple - if you don’t train to the level expected, you don’t feature. But every week is a new week.

So whilst he’s not casting players adrift at this stage in proceedings, he’s letting them all know that nobody is too big a name to be left out. Rashford has been sulking for months. So too Garnacho in recent weeks. As a fan, I don’t want to see attitudes like theirs. I want eleven Amads in my side.

Wasn't it more to do with the leak in the dressing room? Line up leaked yesterday and found to be spot on. That's serious stuff and obviously comes from Rashford or Garnacho.

Rashford is done at this level, his head is gone. Garnacho is a good talent but incredibly selfish and lacks the pace to ever be world class. The two should be sold ASAP. They'd get serious money too so win win.

 

[Swango1980]

I see Hojlund posted a beautiful poem after the game:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
What a brilliant performance
But the Oscar goes to.....

 

[Swango1980]

Red card after game for Cucerella, second booking. Another incident of handbags after the game. Mind you, could have been sent off for his Kyle Walker like reaction during the match.

Players are automatically booked for waving imaginary yellow cards. Should they be given automatic red cards if they are clearly trying to cheat to get an opponent sent off?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Russell Martin: Southampton sack manager after Tottenham defeat

Southampton sack manager Russell Martin after a 5-0 thrashing by Tottenham on Sunday leaves the club nine points off Premier League safety.

www.bbc.co.uk

Martin gone

I saw the first half of their game and Southampton just collapsed. They were embarrassing. They play pretty football but Martin refused to adapt and that was taking them down without a fight. I'm sure there would be a stat out there identifying how many goals they have 'given' the opposition, it must league leading. He can't complain, he's walked into this.

 

[Billysboots]

Wasn't it more to do with the leak in the dressing room? Line up leaked yesterday and found to be spot on. That's serious stuff and obviously comes from Rashford or Garnacho.

Rashford is done at this level, his head is gone. Garnacho is a good talent but incredibly selfish and lacks the pace to ever be world class. The two should be sold ASAP. They'd get serious money too so win win.

I’ve heard rumours the leaked team sheet was down to Garnacho, but the suggestion was he leaked it after he was excluded from the match day squad, which would make sense.

Either way, the message sent is a strong one. If you can’t maintain high standards on and off the pitch, you won’t be involved. It’s long, long overdue.

I’ve never made any secret of my views regarding Rashford. A waste of space. I’d be delighted to see him gone. I suspect many United fans share that view. And, sadly, Garnacho is on the path to being another Rashford. It’s almost as if he has been receiving lessons in attitude from the master.

 

[Swango1980]

I’ve heard rumours the leaked team sheet was down to Garnacho, but the suggestion was he leaked it after he was excluded from the match day squad, which would make sense.

Either way, the message sent is a strong one. If you can’t maintain high standards on and off the pitch, you won’t be involved. It’s long, long overdue.

I’ve never made any secret of my views regarding Rashford. A waste of space. I’d be delighted to see him gone. I suspect many United fans share that view. And, sadly, Garnacho is on the path to being another Rashford. It’s almost as if he has been receiving lessons in attitude from the master.

I feel Garnacho is more interested in seeking out the prettiest earrings to wear these days than grafting. CR7 is his hero, and his attitude seems to be that of CR7 at the age of 35 who has already won everything and scored hundreds of goals. Garnacho was clearly too young to have watched CR7 when he was 19/20 years old. At that time, he was no where near the finished article, did try the flamboyant tricks, but worked like a dog. He had no choice, given the players around him.

Regardless of how it ended, I think a big positive of ETH's reign was he started to introduce strong discipline. Many people, including some players, criticised him for it. And, ultimately, I think player power was the downfall of ETH's reign, as certain players just looked to stop being interested. But, that paved the way for Amorim, who fans and even media are very much behind at the moment it seems. Rather than reverse what ETH has done, he looks like he can now be even harder on discipline. As everyone is backing him, and their eyes are already open to the issues ETH had, there is really no hiding place for players. Leaving Rashford and Garnacho out of squad almost made me as happy as Amad's winning goal yesterday.

 

[Billysboots]

I feel Garnacho is more interested in seeking out the prettiest earrings to wear these days than grafting. CR7 is his hero, and his attitude seems to be that of CR7 at the age of 35 who has already won everything and scored hundreds of goals. Garnacho was clearly too young to have watched CR7 when he was 19/20 years old. At that time, he was no where near the finished article, did try the flamboyant tricks, but worked like a dog. He had no choice, given the players around him.

Regardless of how it ended, I think a big positive of ETH's reign was he started to introduce strong discipline. Many people, including some players, criticised him for it. And, ultimately, I think player power was the downfall of ETH's reign, as certain players just looked to stop being interested. But, that paved the way for Amorim, who fans and even media are very much behind at the moment it seems. Rather than reverse what ETH has done, he looks like he can now be even harder on discipline. As everyone is backing him, and their eyes are already open to the issues ETH had, there is really no hiding place for players. Leaving Rashford and Garnacho out of squad almost made me as happy as Amad's winning goal yesterday.

I agree in part.

Whilst ten Hag was reasonably sound when it came to enforcing discipline, he was awful when it came to repeatedly selecting players who were underperforming and where there were clearly underlying issues. Rashford was a classic case in point. He was occasionally left on the bench because of attitude/discipline issues, but once ten Hag had made his point, he then continued to pick a player whose on-field demeanour and level of performance were both ridiculously sub-standard, week after week. So whilst he sent a message regarding discipline, it was largely a token one, because the underlying problems were never eradicated.

Amorim just strikes me as a little more no nonsense. The impression I get is that he expects both discipline and performance levels to be top notch. As, indeed, he should. But unlike ten Hag, if he doesn’t see evidence of both, then players won’t just be on the bench. They’ll be left out of match day squads completely.

Providing he gets the support from those above and around him, I really do get the feeling that this is a manager who may, at long last, start to unpick years of mismanagement at every level.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Amorin is a very good manager , but he has a hell of a job on his hands

Watching that game yesterday and there needs to be a lot of changes with the players

Needs a massive overhaul - the best defender was Maguire , Hojlund I think is good , Amad is good, midfield is ok , shame about Mount again

Outside Mainoo , Amad , Hojlund and Yoro - the rest can easily be replaced but that’s a long long job to overhaul for Amorin

Recruitment in Jan and then in the summer is massive

 

[Swango1980]

Amorin is a very good manager , but he has a hell of a job on his hands

Watching that game yesterday and there needs to be a lot of changes with the players

Needs a massive overhaul - the best defender was Maguire , Hojlund I think is good , Amad is good, midfield is ok , shame about Mount again

Outside Mainoo , Amad , Hojlund and Yoro - the rest can easily be replaced but that’s a long long job to overhaul for Amorin

Recruitment in Jan and then in the summer is massive

You forgot to mention Ugarte looked very good, again

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You forgot to mention Ugarte looked very good, again

Did he ? “very good” ?

 

[Don Barzini]

They were embarrassing. They play pretty football but Martin refused to adapt and that was taking them down without a fight. I'm sure there would be a stat out there identifying how many goals they have 'given' the opposition, it must league leading. He can't complain, he's walked into this.

If only Russell Martin had played for a big club at a much higher level during his playing career. Then his managerial style would have be applauded, people would have had sympathy with what he was trying to achieve and despite being a complete and utter failure and leading his side to relegation, he could have walked into a top european managerial position off the back of it....a club like Bayern Munich, as an example plucked entirely out of the air.

 

[Swango1980]

I agree in part.

Whilst ten Hag was reasonably sound when it came to enforcing discipline, he was awful when it came to repeatedly selecting players who were underperforming and where there were clearly underlying issues. Rashford was a classic case in point. He was occasionally left on the bench because of attitude/discipline issues, but once ten Hag had made his point, he then continued to pick a player whose on-field demeanour and level of performance were both ridiculously sub-standard, week after week. So whilst he sent a message regarding discipline, it was largely a token one, because the underlying problems were never eradicated.

Amorim just strikes me as a little more no nonsense. The impression I get is that he expects both discipline and performance levels to be top notch. As, indeed, he should. But unlike ten Hag, if he doesn’t see evidence of both, then players won’t just be on the bench. They’ll be left out of match day squads completely.

Providing he gets the support from those above and around him, I really do get the feeling that this is a manager who may, at long last, start to unpick years of mismanagement at every level.

Yes, I do agree that the likes of Rashford were continually picked when I don't think he deserved it. However, I think ETH had many more disciplinary issues to deal with than Amorim. At the start, there was the whole Ronaldo saga and Sancho was giving him grief. As far as I see it, he'll have had issues with the likes of Ronaldo, Varane, Martial, Sancho, etc. With all the injuries we had on top of that last season, perhaps dropping players like Rashford and Bruno might have been a step too far? Had we lost those games, he'd have got it in the neck for leaving out players who are potentially the best at the club, and not being able to get a tune out of them. There were not a lot of quality alternatives in those positions, but we'll all wonder why Amad was not used more.

I also have a suspicion that Rashford has had quite a lot of influence in the dressing room. Not as a leader, but as the local boy and probably good mates with many players. So, if he gets sulky and falls out with the manager, then the fear is he could drag a lot of his team mates with him, who will have his back. Maybe Rashford has been led to believe he is fairly untouchable by the people around him, as the local boy, and that if the manager doesn't pick him then his people will make sure the manager suffers the consequences by releasing info into the media? So, maybe ETH was desperately hoping that by giving him his full backing, he'd spark back into life at some point. Get back to what he did in his first season. And, as Utd are pretty impotent in attack with most other players at their disposal, there may have been a lot of hope that Rashford can at least produce in moments and score much needed goals.

I'm with you, that I do believe ETH should have been harder on Rashford, at least this season once we got some fresh players into the squad. But, then again, ETH wasn't starting with a clean slate, he was already a manager under massive pressure. So another news story about Rashford not making the squad is probably going to backfire, unless Utd win lots of games which is a big assumption to make. Amorim can come in, carry on the discipline but start with a clean slate. Rashford could be his Ronaldo, Garnacho could be his Sancho. Regardless of how those stories end, we don't want him to have another player in the squad who will become the new Rashford and/or the new Sancho in 2 years time. So, I can only hope recruitment is miles better, and any more bad eggs within the squad have contracts that have finally run out by then.

So, what I was thinking is that unfortunately it needed a manager to almost become the sacrificial lamb, come in and start instilling a lot of discipline, and really opening the eyes to fans where the problems lie. By playing Rashford frequently, the evidence was there for all to see that Rashford has been useless. Not playing him, more fans may blame ETH for not playing a squad player with lots of talent and getting best out of him. Whereas playing him, we are in no doubt Rashford is a problem. It has ultimately cost him his job because performances were awful. But, the new manager can come in and it is now so easy to drop the likes of Rashford and Garnacho, and no one is questioning the new manager falling out with the biggest players in the squad already. Rangnick said we needed open heart surgery. Therefore, if it was that bad, it was likely to be messy for quite a few years. These days, it is unlikely any manager can survive 2/3 years of messiness, even if every single person admits it'll be years before a Club can be turned around. As a fan, my hope is that things will start becoming a bit more tidy in the next year or so, and that Amorim benefits from having a lot more stability and players he can trust, and players who will suddenly become more confident and willing to put a shift in

 

[Swango1980]

Did he ? “very good” ?

Yes, from what I saw he was very good and did the job he needs to do. The same has been true for many other games he has played in lately.

Of course, this is my individual opinion. But, you just need to do a search on most sites that give out Player ratings, most people who are responsible for rating players agree. Generally giving him 7/8 out of 10. City may have been rubbish, but often that is in part because the opposition don't let them play. Ugarte was an important part in that.

I certainly haven't heard anybody foolishly writing him off, that's for certain.

As for other players you didn't mention, I probably think it's worth pointing out that Mazaroui looks like he could be one of our best signings in years, and De Ligt has given many excellent performances for us since he arrived.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868431688012910854

Seems quite obvious to me that the referee forgot he had booked Cucurella. He has essentially been sent off for being pushed around. Especially annoying as his first yellow card was for getting the ball.

They have to allow appeals for yellows when nonsense like this happens.

A proper ref would have told them to just calm down. He was frustratingly poor.

I’m enjoying this title race that we’re definitely not involved in.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Yes, from what I saw he was very good and did the job he needs to do. The same has been true for many other games he has played in lately.

Of course, this is my individual opinion. But, you just need to do a search on most sites that give out Player ratings, most people who are responsible for rating players agree. Generally giving him 7/8 out of 10. City may have been rubbish, but often that is in part because the opposition don't let them play. Ugarte was an important part in that.

I certainly haven't heard anybody foolishly writing him off, that's for certain.

As for other players you didn't mention, I probably think it's worth pointing out that Mazaroui looks like he could be one of our best signings in years, and De Ligt has given many excellent performances for us since he arrived.

Again as you say it’s an opinion

Believe De Ligt doesn’t have the pace for the prem and it’s a reason why he has been passed from club to club

And that Urgate just isn’t good enough on the ball

People have opinions about players all the time - that’s the life of a football fan , you can either have it affect you to the point that you need to ensure you highlight it all the time ( which it seems to have affected you ) - or you can wait until the players have had a significant period in the Prem if whoever has said they don’t think they will work out is right or wrong

If you think a player has been “best signing in years” or “excellent” etc etc then away you go - I’m sure we will all find out over the next season as opposed to a couple of games

But it’s ok if people don’t rate the players Man Utd bring in - the performances are sort of proving they may have a point

 

[Swango1980]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868431688012910854

Seems quite obvious to me that the referee forgot he had booked Cucurella. He has essentially been sent off for being pushed around. Especially annoying as his first yellow card was for getting the ball.

They have to allow appeals for yellows when nonsense like this happens.

A proper ref would have told them to just calm down. He was frustratingly poor.

I’m enjoying this title race that we’re definitely not involved in.

Both players pushed each other, right in front of the referee. The camera in the TV Coverage shows it better. When players do that, it is pretty much a nailed on yellow card these days

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think many overlook the most important thing with Amorim and ETH, and that is Amorim has been brought in by Ratcliffe who was hardly effusive and supportive of ETH from the word go.
The players knew that and took advantage of it, whereas with Amorin he will have a clear line of sight to Ratcliffe and be fully supported in his actions.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868431688012910854

Seems quite obvious to me that the referee forgot he had booked Cucurella. He has essentially been sent off for being pushed around. Especially annoying as his first yellow card was for getting the ball.

They have to allow appeals for yellows when nonsense like this happens.

A proper ref would have told them to just calm down. He was frustratingly poor.

I’m enjoying this title race that we’re definitely not involved in.

Wasn’t there something with Caicedo as well? Pushing a player who went a bit head over heels

 

[Orikoru]

Cucurella seems like such an irritating little that I have no sympathy for him at all.

 

[Swango1980]

Again as you say it’s an opinion

Believe De Ligt doesn’t have the pace for the prem and it’s a reason why he has been passed from club to club

And that Urgate just isn’t good enough on the ball

People have opinions about players all the time - that’s the life of a football fan , you can either have it affect you to the point that you need to ensure you highlight it all the time ( which it seems to have affected you ) - or you can wait until the players have had a significant period in the Prem if whoever has said they don’t think they will work out is right or wrong

If you think a player has been “best signing in years” or “excellent” etc etc then away you go - I’m sure we will all find out over the next season as opposed to a couple of games

But it’s ok if people don’t rate the players Man Utd bring in - the performances are sort of proving they may have a point

After expressing your ridiculous opinion on Ugarte (in my opinion), I'm not sure I've really made a point in mentioning him in here from game to game after good performances? This might be the first time, and I was only doing so in response to your desire to rate the Man Utd players potential futures after yesterdays game.

Are you seriously criticsing my opinion that a player COULD be our best signing in years after a few games, yet you are happy to write a player off completely after one appearance? Do you have a straight face, because I don't after reading that

Remind me, what is your reaction when people are critical of TAA?