The Footie Thread

[Hobbit]

Isn’t that part of the issue though! People need to forget the teams/players of the past and allow a manager to create a new identity and style of play.

Current players and managers are always being compared to the past, now I understand how good it would be to recreate that success, but it isn’t going to happen.

Look at Lpool, it was always about Gerard and what they didn’t achieve, Klopp built his team, his way and brought success.

Club legends need to stay in the past and be admired, not used as a stick to beat current players.

I don’t think it is part of the issue. Let’s take Keane’s name out of the equation. What I was suggesting is I think a strong captain is needed to motivate, bring focus and kick the odd butt if people are out of line. In effect, a captain performs some of the manager’s duties out on the pitch, i.e. he is the manager on the pitch.

Just because a new captain has similar skills to past captains doesn’t make them a Keane or a Viera, it just means the have a set of captain’s skills.

 

[PJ87]

I don’t think it is part of the issue. Let’s take Keane’s name out of the equation. What I was suggesting is I think a strong captain is needed to motivate, bring focus and kick the odd butt if people are out of line. In effect, a captain performs some of the manager’s duties out on the pitch, i.e. he is the manager on the pitch.

Just because a new captain has similar skills to past captains doesn’t make them a Keane or a Viera, it just means the have a set of captain’s skills.

Might have helped by not taking the captaincy of one of the few solid professional players they had in the squad , trying to sell him, then giving the captaincy to a man child though

That's all on ETH

My respect for maigure went up a lot this season when he just acted professionally and got on with it

Where as Fernandez says he wants out and what the same day Eth is announced to be leaving after the cup final he suddenly wants to stay?

What a fine captain and fine choice by a manager who knew his players when he made that decision

 

[PaulMdj]

I don’t think it is part of the issue. Let’s take Keane’s name out of the equation. What I was suggesting is I think a strong captain is needed to motivate, bring focus and kick the odd butt if people are out of line. In effect, a captain performs some of the manager’s duties out on the pitch, i.e. he is the manager on the pitch.

Just because a new captain has similar skills to past captains doesn’t make them a Keane or a Viera, it just means the have a set of captain’s skills.

It’s not just Keane’s name that is brought up though! The team SAF built/had was immense and may never be repeated, but current players/managers are being expected to hit those heights almost immediately, look at the pressure Mainoo is now under, look how Rashford has gone backwards.

Maybe these Pro’s need to handled differently to the way it was done in the past, who knows if Bruno fits the exact model ETH wants in a Captain.

Look at City/Arsenal/Lpool this season, some great footballers but I don’t see them having a Captain the way you describe.

 

[Swango1980]

Might have helped by not taking the captaincy of one of the few solid professional players they had in the squad , trying to sell him, then giving the captaincy to a man child though

That's all on ETH

My respect for maigure went up a lot this season when he just acted professionally and got on with it

Where as Fernandez says he wants out and what the same day Eth is announced to be leaving after the cup final he suddenly wants to stay?

What a fine captain and fine choice by a manager who knew his players when he made that decision

A lot of assumptions there.

The plan was to sell Maguire, and it looked likely. It wasn't exactly a shocker either, many ridiculed him for ages and said he wasn't a Man Utd player. That was harsh, but it was clear last season he wasn't a starter. So, I think it was fair to Maguire to let him leave.

Fair enough, Maguire eventually decided to stay. And, I agree, he seems like a true pro. But, ETH would be ridiculed if he kept him as Captain, despite letting him leave and not seeing him as a starter.

So, if not Maguire, who else? Bruno is the most obvious choice. Without him (which is rare, as he is usually fit), we are generally even more horrific. He isn't a hard man, he had his flaws. But he runs everywhere, he is always available for a pass, never hides, and is most creative. The only other potential options might be Shaw or Martinez for me.

I'm not sure Bruno had said he wants to leave? But, one of the big news stories this season is Utd should sell everyone except Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund. So, when asked about his future, he has simply alluded to fact nothing is certain, and if club and fans want him gone, then he may end up not at club next season. At no point have I heard him say he wants out?

 

[Hobbit]

It’s not just Keane’s name that is brought up though! The team SAF built/had was immense and may never be repeated, but current players/managers are being expected to hit those heights almost immediately, look at the pressure Mainoo is now under, look how Rashford has gone backwards.

Maybe these Pro’s need to handled differently to the way it was done in the past, who knows if Bruno fits the exact model ETH wants in a Captain.

Look at City/Arsenal/Lpool this season, some great footballers but I don’t see them having a Captain the way you describe.

My mistake for using a past player as an example. Each player in a team has a skill set made up of a number of facets. Keepers might have a 9/10 rating for coming for crosses but a 6/10 for distribution. Midfielders, similarly, will have skills for their position just as a centre forward needs to knock them in the net. Every position, or roll, needs a set of skills, and that includes a captain.

I feel Utd lack a decent Captain. That view has nothing to do with past players nor teams, nor was I thinking of it in terms of SAF’s great teams. In my view, Utd lack certain skills in certain areas… and it’s nothing more complicated than that.

As for City/Arsenal/Liverpool not having a captain as I describe. If all the players are at the top of their game would a Captain need to shout, cajole or kick butt. By the way, I’ve seen VVD really get in the face of a few players. Lots of finger wagging and even spun one player round to talk to him.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Fernandes being captain of Man Utd is the perfect beacon for all that’s wrong with the club - he is as far from captain material as you can get , but that’s just another issue with ETH

What speaks volumes is I suspect most “rival” fans want ETH to stay , it’s the same as when they had OGS in charge , both doing great jobs in the eyes of rivals

It’s now over a decade since the last title , and in those 11 years have they even realistically challenged- I don’t think so. Man Utd are prob back to that club from the 70/80s - a big club that wins cups .

 

[PaulMdj]

My mistake for using a past player as an example. Each player in a team has a skill set made up of a number of facets. Keepers might have a 9/10 rating for coming for crosses but a 6/10 for distribution. Midfielders, similarly, will have skills for their position just as a centre forward needs to knock them in the net. Every position, or roll, needs a set of skills, and that includes a captain.

I feel Utd lack a decent Captain. That view has nothing to do with past players nor teams, nor was I thinking of it in terms of SAF’s great teams. In my view, Utd lack certain skills in certain areas… and it’s nothing more complicated than that.

As for City/Arsenal/Liverpool not having a captain as I describe. If all the players are at the top of their game would a Captain need to shout, cajole or kick butt. By the way, I’ve seen VVD really get in the face of a few players. Lots of finger wagging and even spun one player round to talk to him.

Fair one on VVD, as is said above in relation to Utd, Fernandes tends to more lead by example rather than shout, maybe that’s personality or the way ETH wants it.

In my opinion, every team needs a “hard man”, not dirty, just no nonsense, whether he should be Captain is debateable, as you say he needs a lot of qualities, and a lot of those “extras” seem to be missing for Utd, maybe a Cup win tomorrow and the owners supporting ETH next season whilst sorting out the background will be more beneficial to them in the long run.

 

[Tashyboy]

If TH is on his way after tomorrow, I wonder if the team will turn up for him.

 

[Swango1980]

Fernandes being captain of Man Utd is the perfect beacon for all that’s wrong with the club - he is as far from captain material as you can get , but that’s just another issue with ETH

What speaks volumes is I suspect most “rival” fans want ETH to stay , it’s the same as when they had OGS in charge , both doing great jobs in the eyes of rivals

It’s now over a decade since the last title , and in those 11 years have they even realistically challenged- I don’t think so. Man Utd are prob back to that club from the 70/80s - a big club that wins cups .

And yet it was only last season ETH's Man Utd beat Sir Klopp's Liverpool with ease

 

[Arthur Wedge]

And yet it was only last season ETH's Man Utd beat Sir Klopp's Liverpool with ease

Excellent- if that’s the level of ambition for the club then it’s certainly gone backwards

The beating Klopp trophy in a season must be sitting proud next to all those leagues titles they used to challenge for

 

[Swango1980]

Excellent- if that’s the level of ambition for the club then it’s certainly gone backwards

The beating Klopp trophy in a season must be sitting proud next to all those leagues titles they used to challenge for

The point was clearly lost on you.

My ambition is clearly not to be better than a poor Liverpool side.

The point was that Liverpool were awful, but Klopp was still a hero living on past performances. Liverpool fans still willing to give him a chance.

Man Utd have been awful this season, same fans think ETH is a manager deserving of the sack. Forget Utd having the worst set of injuries since PL began at the club.

Probably ETH's only crime is not having reached the promised land of a PL title before having his bad season.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The point was clearly lost on you.

My ambition is clearly not to be better than a poor Liverpool side.

The point was that Liverpool were awful, but Klopp was still a hero living on past performances. Liverpool fans still willing to give him a chance.

Man Utd have been awful this season, same fans think ETH is a manager deserving of the sack. Forget Utd having the worst set of injuries since PL began at the club.

Probably ETH's only crime is not having reached the promised land of a PL title before having his bad season.

I’m struggling to see any comparison at all between any season at Liverpool under Klopp and ETH

“Living on past performance”

Klopp has proved himself multiple times. ETH hasn’t proved a thing beyond taking the club to their worst season since 89

 

[Junior]

I’m struggling to see any comparison at all between any season at Liverpool under Klopp and ETH

“Living on past performance”

Klopp has proved himself multiple times. ETH hasn’t proved a thing beyond taking the club to their worst season since 89

Well you can’t compare them in the 22/23 season mate as ETH finished 2 places higher in the league, got to the fa cup final and won the EFL trophy.

Liverpool won the Charity Shield.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Well you can’t compare them in the 22/23 season mate as ETH finished 2 places higher in the league, got to the fa cup final and won the EFL trophy.

Liverpool won the Charity Shield.

Major trophy the Charity Shield

 

[Junior]

If TH is on his way after tomorrow, I wonder if the team will turn up for him.

I hope so. They should also turn up for the fans who have endured a torrid season.

 

[Billysboots]

I hope so. They should also turn up for the fans who have endured a torrid season.

I hope he resists the urge to pick Rashford. I would rather see a front three with Garnacho, Hojlund and Diallo in it.

 

[Junior]

I hope he resists the urge to pick Rashford. I would rather see a front three with Garnacho, Hojlund and Diallo in it.

I agree. Rashford vs Walker and there’s only one winner. We’ve got to go down the right and try and get over the top / around Gvardiol. I start with Garnacho and Amad too.

 

[road2ruin]

The similarities are there….



I’m still of the view that I would keep ETH because 1) the club is a mess and 2) the pool of available managers is pretty average. Someone like Southgate getting the United job would be a disaster for the club IMO.

Keep ETH on, get things done behind the scenes and if things still done progress then sack him but at least have the time to identify the manager you want rather than sacking someone and replacing with whoever is available.

Obviously we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with regards ETH knowing his future but on Dave value in disappointed in INEOS not coming out and addressing the rumours, it’s already very Glazer-esque. United’s chances against City are already pretty slim but this whole thing going on just before the final just reduces those chances even further imo.

 

[Pin-seeker]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794277422529220767

WOW

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The similarities are there….

View attachment 53484

I’m still of the view that I would keep ETH because 1) the club is a mess and 2) the pool of available managers is pretty average. Someone like Southgate getting the United job would be a disaster for the club IMO.

Keep ETH on, get things done behind the scenes and if things still done progress then sack him but at least have the time to identify the manager you want rather than sacking someone and replacing with whoever is available.

Obviously we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with regards ETH knowing his future but on Dave value in disappointed in INEOS not coming out and addressing the rumours, it’s already very Glazer-esque. United’s chances against City are already pretty slim but this whole thing going on just before the final just reduces those chances even further imo.

I said a simialr thing earlier on about this.
As much as Utd need to rebuild, having an owner that wants to pick the team and players isn't going to end well, and as much as the Glazers are disliked, I think the Ratcliffe love in thats seems prevelant could be a false dawn.