The Footie Thread

[PaulMdj]

I know they don't want to struggle, but it can be a fact of life when moving up levels.

Didn't Burnley walk the Championship last year? I'm sure Burnley fans were loving it. But, they were never going to walk the Premier league this year. Sure, the hope is they can finish in the Top 17. But then 20 clubs definitely want to finish in the top 17, so the ones that will most likely be disappointed will be the ones who started from a lower position. Generally the promoted clubs. But, then again, not is all lost. They get relegated, and the hope becomes having another great season in the Championship, getting back to PL and seeing what they might do differently next time.

Surely the worst thing for fans would be getting promoted, spending big because there are no restrictions, still coming up short because all the other PL clubs are spending big and have better players to start with, and then being in massive trouble once they get relegated?

But, do you genuinely believe that FFP increases the chances clubs will go bust, and without it suddenly many more clubs will become more competitive with the current teams with massive resources? I just think that, without FPP, then Hull fans might even have to accept they will never be in the Premier League again, let alone compete in the top half and for European spots.

As said before though, maybe allowing promoted clubs a bit of leeway with spending may help them get established.

And maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see any joy in supporting a team whose main aim is to simply survive and if that’s the case then it proves the game has gone as we may as well let the big 6 go to Europe and create the European Super League, because I very much doubt their fans are worrying about relegation before the season starts!

It’s a sad life hoping you might be the 4th worse team!

 

[Tashyboy]

As I’ve said mate, I hope City beat all the charges and the PL deck of cards starting crumbling.

It’s not fit for purpose!

Last september the PL held a meeting to discuss punishments for Clubs who breach the rules. Everton asked for a copy of the minutes and have been refused.
Just what have they got to hide?

I think I mentioned earlier re a post from a city fan on Facebook. It was quite in depth. One of the things he mentioned was the lack of spending in the last transfer markets. It has clubs worried. Apparently six teams voted against FFP. 3 are no longer in the Premier league. Stoke City are owned by the Bet 365 owners. They cannot spend there money. I still think the FFP saga has a long way to go.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But how much has the Tax man lost becuase of clubs not paying their tax or VAT because they have gone bust, or done a deal so they can continue existing?
If you can name one business where loses to the extent that are currently permitted by FFP and the shareholders of that business are happy, or isn't wound up by the Revenue because of the monies they are owed you will do well.

The tax man hasn't lost a penny from PL teams. None have failed to pay monies owed.

In terms of your next paragraph, the owners are clearly okay with short term losses, hoping for the long term gain. In terms of businesses that made big losses for a number of years before making profits, amazon is the biggest, most tech companies, the coffee chains in the early days. If investors see a big enough pot at the end of the rainbow they will allow some money burn.

 

[Pin-seeker]

As said before though, maybe allowing promoted clubs a bit of leeway with spending may help them get established.

And maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see any joy in supporting a team whose main aim is to simply survive and if that’s the case then it proves the game has gone as we may as well let the big 6 go to Europe and create the European Super League, because I very much doubt their fans are worrying about relegation before the season starts!

It’s a sad life hoping you might be the 4th worse team!

But what happens if you give promoted clubs a a bit of leeway & they still get relegated?
They’ve spent money praying it keeps them up & have players on Prem wages for 3 years minimum.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

But what happens if you give promoted clubs a a bit of leeway & they still get relegated?
They’ve spent money praying it keeps them up & have players on Prem wages for 3 years minimum.

To be fair the majority of premier league contracts for lower table teams include relegation wage drops, or release clauses in the advent of relegation

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The tax man hasn't lost a penny from PL teams. None have failed to pay monies owed.

In terms of your next paragraph, the owners are clearly okay with short term losses, hoping for the long term gain. In terms of businesses that made big losses for a number of years before making profits, amazon is the biggest, most tech companies, the coffee chains in the early days. If investors see a big enough pot at the end of the rainbow they will allow some money burn.

But the Revenue has lost out with lower league teams.
PL footy teams are existing businesses, not new start ups.
Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think.
Just as it doesn't matter to me whether the teams are punished for breaking the FFP rules or not. There will always be those that push the boundaries and try to beat the rules /system.
Just as there will always be those that defend the rules and those that defend the rules breakers, and normally because they have an interest in the rules breakers.

 

[PaulMdj]

But what happens if you give promoted clubs a a bit of leeway & they still get relegated?
They’ve spent money praying it keeps them up & have players on Prem wages for 3 years minimum.

If they stay within allowed spending limits (stay the same or raise) and still get relegated then that’s on them.

Limiting their spending doesn’t guarantee survival now.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But the Revenue has lost out with lower league teams.
PL footy teams are existing businesses, not new start ups.
Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think.
Just as it doesn't matter to me whether the teams are punished for breaking the FFP rules or not. There will always be those that push the boundaries and try to beat the rules /system.
Just as there will always be those that defend the rules and those that defend the rules breakers, and normally because they have an interest in the rules breakers.

Yes, lower league teams, not PL teams. Having financial rules for EFL teams is about keeping teams going long term. In the PL it's about something completely different, imo.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Yes, lower league teams, not PL teams. Having financial rules for EFL teams is about keeping teams going long term. In the PL it's about something completely different, imo.

But is it?
To me it's about making sure PL clubs dont screw it up like Barca for example. It also shows the lower league clubs you cant just spend, spend spend and get away with it.

 

[Pin-seeker]

To be fair the majority of premier league contracts for lower table teams include relegation wage drops, or release clauses in the advent of relegation

I’d never sign players on relegation release clauses.
They are only signing because no one else wants them & once they’re in a relegation scrap they’ll down tools.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I’d never sign players on relegation release clauses.
They are only signing because no one else wants them & once they’re in a relegation scrap they’ll down tools.

Not entirely true. It's good players aswell

For example I think paquata has one, might have been another player but if you sign for west ham, you could go down. You want to guarantee an exit if your a top player

 

[Pin-seeker]

Not entirely true. It's good players aswell

For example I think paquata has one, might have been another player but if you sign for west ham, you could go down. You want to guarantee an exit if your a top player

Have West Ham been in a dog fight at the bottom whilst he’s been there?

 

[PaulMdj]

Leicester charged by PL.

Leicester City charged with breaking Premier League PSR

Latest Leicester City news as the Premier League confirm the Foxes have breached their Financial Fair Play regulations

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Have West Ham been in a dog fight at the bottom whilst he’s been there?

Yes. Last season we were in and around the relegation zone for a while

It's quite common , clubs have to overpay on wages to get players to sign for them if they aren't as desirable clubs

So relegation wage drops or release clauses are put into deals

JWP we got for 30 mil after holding fire until end of the window

If you have the protection of a release clause as a player it's right 20 mil is the agreed price everyone knows where they stand

 

[PaulMdj]

It doesn’t matter what Everton spent the money on, they broke the rules. If they were funding the stadium then they needed to cut back on the playing squad to keep within the rules.

So what if Forest realised after the season finished. Surely their finance team must have been keeping a tab on this.

What we have is two teams that stayed up at the expense of one that didn’t invest in order to comply with the FFP rules. The margin was miniscule, ie one goal scored or not conceded would have made the difference between staying up or relegation. Can you say categorically that if all three teams spent within the rules the positions would have remained unaltered? Of course you can’t.

It’s probably done Leicester some good to rebuild, but that’s not the point. Someone else has broken the rules and it’s cost us £100m and they have likely got away with what effectively amounts to a slap on the wrist.

People in glass houses…

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Leicester charged by PL.

Leicester City charged with breaking Premier League PSR

Latest Leicester City news as the Premier League confirm the Foxes have breached their Financial Fair Play regulations

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

Doesn't that open a new can of worms , because if found guilty etc they can't be docked points in the championship as it's a different organisation. So would have to be next season (if promoted) then surely the likes of forest and Everton could appeal well we should get our points taken next season aswell?

 

[fundy]

Doesn't that open a new can of worms , because if found guilty etc they can't be docked points in the championship as it's a different organisation. So would have to be next season (if promoted) then surely the likes of forest and Everton could appeal well we should get our points taken next season aswell?

thats why the PL and the EFL have been arguing over who was going to charge them..................

 

[PaulMdj]

Doesn't that open a new can of worms , because if found guilty etc they can't be docked points in the championship as it's a different organisation. So would have to be next season (if promoted) then surely the likes of forest and Everton could appeal well we should get our points taken next season aswell?

If you read the article it mentions they were relegated after the rules about dealing with the charges came in, therefore the timeline to face the discipline panel has to be agreed, so doubt it will be by the end of the season.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Doesn't that open a new can of worms , because if found guilty etc they can't be docked points in the championship as it's a different organisation. So would have to be next season (if promoted) then surely the likes of forest and Everton could appeal well we should get our points taken next season aswell?

Yes please

 

[Deleted member 21784]

If you read the article it mentions they were relegated after the rules about dealing with the charges came in, therefore the timeline to face the discipline panel has to be agreed, so doubt it will be by the end of the season.

So catch me up please. Leicester charges are before the process was agreed to deal with them

But forest and Everton's were after?