4LEX
Well-known member
Pep really has coached all the ability and flair out of him to fit into his system. He either gets the ball and passes backwards or falls over. Solid squad player but shouldn't be starting for England these days IMO. Not that he cares as he wins trophies galore, picks up millions and has carte blanche to go on the booze whenever he fancies it
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Agree with them on the ball not being out of play - they haven't got the best angle (i.e. top down) but the outer curve of the ball could still be on the line so they can't rule it out for that. Not sure about the push though. He said at one point "there are two hands on his back but not enough of a push for him to fall forward like that" or something similar. Not sure you're allowed to put two hands on someone's back to jump for a header anyway are you??
Don't think there's an offside either so they're fine on that. Seemed like a foul to me though.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
That is an absolute mess.
Is that what they are actually seeing and saying. Literally falling over themselves and hiding behind strange protocols.
They had ruled out a foul before watching some of the angles of asking for a close up.
The ball being in or out is a hard one.
The offside they couldn't conclude where Gordon's leg was even though you can see it in the reverse angle.
Is that what they are actually seeing and saying. Literally falling over themselves and hiding behind strange protocols.
They had ruled out a foul before watching some of the angles of asking for a close up.
The ball being in or out is a hard one.
The offside they couldn't conclude where Gordon's leg was even though you can see it in the reverse angle.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I'm struggling to account for all the voices. One person to operate the replay software, another person hopefully trained in the laws of the game to give his decision on it - and one voice is the ref of course. It seems like there's another two voices being heard and I'm not sure what they're for?
Swango1980
Well-known member
To you, and probably not the most committed call for a foul I've ever heard. Which would imply it is subjective.
Players make contact with other players all the time. Sometimes hands of one player touch another, it is a natural reaction when someone is in your space. Fouls are not simply given as soon as one players hands touch another. So, the question is, did he use his hands to push him over? Many say he did. But I've also heard quite a few say that the defender should have headed the ball away, and the hands on his back should not have been enough to knock him over. So, given the debate is even being had, it would suggest it was subjective and VAR must not intervene. As I said before, had VAR asked for the goal to be disallowed, Newcastle fans would rightly have been as incensed as Arsenal fans were after it was allowed to stand.
Generally, I've been absolutely fed up over the years when players throw themselves to the ground anytime they feel contact on their back. So I'm glad the goal was allowed to stand, as it is my belief the defender could have cleared the ball had they been focused on doing that, rather than reacting to a touch on the back.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Not just a push put I thought climbing was also an offence, i.e. using those hands on the defender's back to elevate yourself and prevent them from jumping. It definitely wasn't 100% though so I guess you're right in that they were fair not to overrule the on-field decision since it wasn't a clear and obvious error. It's by far one of the less controversial decisions we've seen, but because it involves Arsenal their social media massive were all over it of course. And because of Arteta being a moron.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Just watched it through on Sky, where the voices were labelled. There was only:
Ref: Onfield Ref
VAR: Lead VAR official
AVAR: Assistant VAR
RO: Chap in control of the video replays to VAR
So I think there is only one extra voice, the AVAR. I'm happy enough with there being an AVAR, because the decision made by VAR is not simply restricted to one person, who may have a different opinion on a subjective decision that 90% of other people. I think it makes it more likely they'll only intervene with clear and obvious mistakes, albeit that isn't always the case and perhaps one manages to sway the opinion of another.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I definitely wouldn't call it climbing, he barely got off the ground. And looked to have already started his little jump as he moved into defender. The defender didn't need to jump up either, the ball looked to be going right to his head, and then he stooped under it when he felt the touch.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
I've given up with trying to work out how they get to decisions now days.
I can only go by what I've seen so will be all west ham I'm afraid
Example 1 isak scored against us . I thought poor defending but replay showed him pushing aguard in the back then taking ball down and scoring. Clear as day push but ignored
In same game you had the player who should have had 3 yellows (even toon fans admit) and the goal from a free kick that wasn't a foul. That all said 2-2 was the correct and fair result based on chances missed by Newcastle
Example 2 villa. Correctly smashed by them. Very good team. Whilst the pen was a clear foul not questioning that the pass the foul came from clear shirt pull on paquata. Once again result correct just what is that call? It's in the same passage of play no
Example 3 Europe mid week. Paquata scored the 1 and only goal..originally ruled out for offside (looked it at first) however took forever to say onside even tho on 1 replay it's clear as half a yard in it..not even close
It's just mental the whole thing tbh
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
They did get involved by going with the refs on field, one look from one angle split second decision.
They should have said..
Can't make a call on the ball going out.
We arnt sure about the offside. You should have you own look.
Also very subjective call on the potential foul at the back post. You may want a closer inspection of that.
They spent 4 minutes in what can only be described as an absolute flap.
They should have said..
Can't make a call on the ball going out.
We arnt sure about the offside. You should have you own look.
Also very subjective call on the potential foul at the back post. You may want a closer inspection of that.
They spent 4 minutes in what can only be described as an absolute flap.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
The defender didn't need to jump. He didn't need to get off the ground as he had position. He stooped to get under it to flick it and was impeded. Its really that simple.
Swango1980
Well-known member
The role of the AVAR definitely played a part in McTomminay's goal being ruled out against Fulham, after Maguire was deemed to be offside and interfering with play.
They checked to see if Garnacho was offside (who crossed the ball), and the VAR was happy he wasn't after a relatively quick check and then was happy to move on. However, the AVAR then intervened just after they did move in, and suggested Maguire could be offside and interfering with play. So, they went back and checked that. Saw he was offside, agreed it was a subjective call if he was interfering with play, and so invited the onfield ref to review the monitor.
They checked to see if Garnacho was offside (who crossed the ball), and the VAR was happy he wasn't after a relatively quick check and then was happy to move on. However, the AVAR then intervened just after they did move in, and suggested Maguire could be offside and interfering with play. So, they went back and checked that. Saw he was offside, agreed it was a subjective call if he was interfering with play, and so invited the onfield ref to review the monitor.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Watched a fair bit of the Georgia v Scotland game last night.
I'm pretty sure I've never seen blatant cheating and timewasting like it in football from the Georgians. And that is saying something, as it is generally pretty common.
In one instance, one of the Scottish players (I think it was McTomminay) was breaking free in the middle of the park. A Georgian (one of the worst constsitent cheats throughout the game), scythed him down from behind, and also with a very high foot (looked like his boot caught him above the back of the knee). It was a clear yellow, but it looked like a straight red (but not much focus was made of it in replays, after the shenanigans that happened next). The Georgian then picked himself up and ran at the Scottish player he'd just been hacked down. They responded by getting up and pushing him away on the chest. The Georgian then flung himself to the floor, rolling about and holding his head as if he'd been punched by one of Tyson Fury's finest. As the commentator sarcastically said, it was the 4th or 5th career ending injury he has looked to pick up during this game alone. It was absolutely pathetic and an complete disgrace.
I know VAR doesn't get involved with yellow cards. And I don't think they should for any sort of foul, simply because being a yellow will always have subjectivity. However, if there is blatant and undisputed cheating going on, then I think they should be able to inform the ref. Get them booked, or even send them off if we think it is worth it (last night was not dissimilar to the Rivaldo incident years ago when he throw himself to the floor with a "head injury", after ball hit his leg).
I'm pretty sure I've never seen blatant cheating and timewasting like it in football from the Georgians. And that is saying something, as it is generally pretty common.
In one instance, one of the Scottish players (I think it was McTomminay) was breaking free in the middle of the park. A Georgian (one of the worst constsitent cheats throughout the game), scythed him down from behind, and also with a very high foot (looked like his boot caught him above the back of the knee). It was a clear yellow, but it looked like a straight red (but not much focus was made of it in replays, after the shenanigans that happened next). The Georgian then picked himself up and ran at the Scottish player he'd just been hacked down. They responded by getting up and pushing him away on the chest. The Georgian then flung himself to the floor, rolling about and holding his head as if he'd been punched by one of Tyson Fury's finest. As the commentator sarcastically said, it was the 4th or 5th career ending injury he has looked to pick up during this game alone. It was absolutely pathetic and an complete disgrace.
I know VAR doesn't get involved with yellow cards. And I don't think they should for any sort of foul, simply because being a yellow will always have subjectivity. However, if there is blatant and undisputed cheating going on, then I think they should be able to inform the ref. Get them booked, or even send them off if we think it is worth it (last night was not dissimilar to the Rivaldo incident years ago when he throw himself to the floor with a "head injury", after ball hit his leg).
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Wow, I didn't know Bruno Fernandes was Georgian.
It was a horrendous watch, I actually thought their was no VAR as no action was getting taken for anything.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
This imo is where VAR falls down.
Its for anything the ref misses.
Blatant cheating is the same as the imaginary card and should be punished.
VAR rules are a joke .why can’t it be used for anything? as it has its own self imposed limits They could be changed tomorrow but there’s no willing to do it.
Get rid for me .
Swango1980
Well-known member
I think VAR is used in the Euro Qualifiers
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
So Everton are back in the relegation zone
