The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

As much as we all know O'Hara is a knob, it's not a completely ridiculous thing to say. As I said a few weeks ago, you'd have thought adding Haaland into that team would have made them unstoppable, but despite all his goals, it hasn't done. Perhaps the other players have struggled a little bit to adjust to having one focal point to the attack rather than several, like they had before. Perhaps it's made them a little more predictable or one-dimensional. So if Haaland isn't quite at his best for a game (let's say he only scores one goal ?) then it gives the defence a chance of stopping him.

Kane on the other hand is a complete footballer, so while he wouldn't score as many as Haaland (who would?) he might have blended more seamlessly with the team that City had, since he's able to get involved more in the actual football and contribute more for others.

Citys last two games were against Chelsea, won the first 1-0 with Haaland in the team, second game 4-0 without Haaland. One could suggest looking at the scores City are better without Haaland. But there was so much more going off than just Haaland.Citys set up in the first game was an issue. City can score goals with and without Haaland but at the moment the team have been very hit and miss. Yet since the return from World Cup City have played 5 games and won 4 draw v Everton and concede 4 with a dodgy defence?
The comparison between Kane and Haaland is like comparing a Lamboghini to a Ferrari. The only difference is that one is 29 yrs old and the other is 22 so the sell on fee between the two will be significant, unless either sees out there contract.

 

[clubchamp98]

As much as we all know O'Hara is a knob, it's not a completely ridiculous thing to say. As I said a few weeks ago, you'd have thought adding Haaland into that team would have made them unstoppable, but despite all his goals, it hasn't done. Perhaps the other players have struggled a little bit to adjust to having one focal point to the attack rather than several, like they had before. Perhaps it's made them a little more predictable or one-dimensional. So if Haaland isn't quite at his best for a game (let's say he only scores one goal ?) then it gives the defence a chance of stopping him.

Kane on the other hand is a complete footballer, so while he wouldn't score as many as Haaland (who would?) he might have blended more seamlessly with the team that City had, since he's able to get involved more in the actual football and contribute more for others.

If Kane played in that City team I think he would score as many.
He would spend more time in the box.
As City’s midfield dosnt need him to drop back the way he does for spurs.
But would depend what Pep wanted him to do.

 

[Swango1980]

If Kane played in that City team I think he would score as many.
He would spend more time in the box.
As City’s midfield dosnt need him to drop back the way he does for spurs.
But would depend what Pep wanted him to do.

I'd take Kane at Man Utd in a heartbeat (mind you, I'd also take Haaland). I know he is 29, but thankfully a player that doesn't rely on pace, so if he stays away from injuries he could have a good few years yet. Not only would he be great in the box, and players would be more willing to cross, but he could also drop deep and plays in the some of the more direct / pacey wide players.

It is a pipe dream though. Looks like we are currently more focused on Burnley player who scored a goal every 10 games in the league (granted, that might be harsh, as he plays for the Netherlands and has other qualities that would be useful in the side)

 

[PJ87]

I'd take Kane at Man Utd in a heartbeat (mind you, I'd also take Haaland). I know he is 29, but thankfully a player that doesn't rely on pace, so if he stays away from injuries he could have a good few years yet. Not only would he be great in the box, and players would be more willing to cross, but he could also drop deep and plays in the some of the more direct / pacey wide players.

It is a pipe dream though. Looks like we are currently more focused on Burnley player who scored a goal every 10 games in the league (granted, that might be harsh, as he plays for the Netherlands and has other qualities that would be useful in the side)

Sometimes tho players don't set the world alight in "lesser" teams but put in a quality side they perform a lot better

I mean lampard and Chelsea spring to mind

He was alright for us , ok for Chelsea first couple years just a solid midfielder

Then the money arrived, the players arrived and book he is transformed

Did anyone think VVD was that world class at Southampton?

Did anyone think Rio was world class at West ham

Not saying this guy is but just examples

 

[Swango1980]

Sometimes tho players don't set the world alight in "lesser" teams but put in a quality side they perform a lot better

I mean lampard and Chelsea spring to mind

He was alright for us , ok for Chelsea first couple years just a solid midfielder

Then the money arrived, the players arrived and book he is transformed

Did anyone think VVD was that world class at Southampton?

Did anyone think Rio was world class at West ham

Not saying this guy is but just examples

Agreed. And, as I assume Ten Hag now has a big influence in who comes in and who goes out now, I know he knows the player much more than me, and certainly knows how he could benefit the team. So, if he is a player we do sign, I will have reasonable confidence he'd do a good job (albeit any signing is a risk). And I certainly believe that we should be in a much better position with him than without, as it is a much bigger risk relying on Martial up front on his own for the remainder of the season.

I also agree some players who have a very good impact at big teams, may not do so at lesser sides. I tried to imagine Gabriel Jesus or Giroud at Burnley, and could easily see them having a baron scoring spell over 20 games, yet still good players that could do a job for big teams.

Mind you, I personally thought Van Dijk was class at Southampton. I was always saddened that United didn't seem to compete with Liverpool for his signing, given I think we had Smalling and Jones at the time.

And, Rio Ferdinand was only about 21 when he left West Ham. He was a young lad, but it must have been pretty quick that people thought he'd be World Class as he left for a British Transfer record at the time to Leeds. Think Lampard was about 23 when he went to Chelsea, so still pretty young, but by that point went for a decent fee for that day and age I guess. The difference with Weghorst is that he is now 30 years old. However, I still agree with you as I said, the team you play in can make a big difference to your contribution.

 

[clubchamp98]

I'd take Kane at Man Utd in a heartbeat (mind you, I'd also take Haaland). I know he is 29, but thankfully a player that doesn't rely on pace, so if he stays away from injuries he could have a good few years yet. Not only would he be great in the box, and players would be more willing to cross, but he could also drop deep and plays in the some of the more direct / pacey wide players.

It is a pipe dream though. Looks like we are currently more focused on Burnley player who scored a goal every 10 games in the league (granted, that might be harsh, as he plays for the Netherlands and has other qualities that would be useful in the side)

I would have him in Liverpools team in a heartbeat.
Even dropping deep he does what Firmino does but can finish as well.
Not my preference but it’s effective.
The chances we make he would score a bagful.

 

[clubchamp98]

Sometimes tho players don't set the world alight in "lesser" teams but put in a quality side they perform a lot better

I mean lampard and Chelsea spring to mind

He was alright for us , ok for Chelsea first couple years just a solid midfielder

Then the money arrived, the players arrived and book he is transformed

Did anyone think VVD was that world class at Southampton?

Did anyone think Rio was world class at West ham

Not saying this guy is but just examples

Klopp did that’s why he waited for VVD.

 

[PJ87]

Klopp did that’s why he waited for VVD.

No I get that lol but he had an eye for him

Not many saw him at Celtic and thought ah he is my missing piece but klopp did.

Jota is another one. Someone told me his stats are similar to mane in terms of work rate and chances created per game so he has been highlighted to do a job

Same with like Robertson .. put him in average premier league team he is an average to good left back

Put him in a good team with great players around him he becomes an amazing full back

 

[hairball_89]

I would have him in Liverpools team in a heartbeat.
Even dropping deep he does what Firmino does but can finish as well.
Not my preference but it’s effective.
The chances we make he would score a bagful.

Absolutely, would have him straight away. He's a wonderful player. But... All the time he's at Spurs I'll be calling him varying words for rubbish!

 

[BrianM]

No I get that lol but he had an eye for him

Not many saw him at Celtic and thought ah he is my missing piece but klopp did.

Jota is another one. Someone told me his stats are similar to mane in terms of work rate and chances created per game so he has been highlighted to do a job

Same with like Robertson .. put him in average premier league team he is an average to good left back

Put him in a good team with great players around him he becomes an amazing full back

Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.

 

[PJ87]

Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.

I think you have missed the point

Put him at say villa he looks average to good but at Liverpool he is outstanding because he has the players around him

 

[Tashyboy]

Agreed. And, as I assume Ten Hag now has a big influence in who comes in and who goes out now, I know he knows the player much more than me, and certainly knows how he could benefit the team. So, if he is a player we do sign, I will have reasonable confidence he'd do a good job (albeit any signing is a risk). And I certainly believe that we should be in a much better position with him than without, as it is a much bigger risk relying on Martial up front on his own for the remainder of the season.

I also agree some players who have a very good impact at big teams, may not do so at lesser sides. I tried to imagine Gabriel Jesus or Giroud at Burnley, and could easily see them having a baron scoring spell over 20 games, yet still good players that could do a job for big teams.

Mind you, I personally thought Van Dijk was class at Southampton. I was always saddened that United didn't seem to compete with Liverpool for his signing, given I think we had Smalling and Jones at the time.

And, Rio Ferdinand was only about 21 when he left West Ham. He was a young lad, but it must have been pretty quick that people thought he'd be World Class as he left for a British Transfer record at the time to Leeds. Think Lampard was about 23 when he went to Chelsea, so still pretty young, but by that point went for a decent fee for that day and age I guess. The difference with Weghorst is that he is now 30 years old. However, I still agree with you as I said, the team you play in can make a big difference to your contribution.

I totally get what you are saying but am not sure Burnley is the best example. From what I have seen at the moment they are far and away the best footballing team in the championship. The football they are playing is remarkable compared to when Burnley played under Dyche. Which leads me to another ( I think ) valid point. Does a lot of getting the best out of players lie with the manager. As you mention TH must know what he will get out of a player who would fit into his system. ?

 

[BrianM]

I think you have missed the point

Put him at say villa he looks average to good but at Liverpool he is outstanding because he has the players around him

I haven’t missed the point, I know what you are trying to say.
In my opinion he’d still be better than average to good at any other Premier league side.

 

[Tashyboy]

Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.

Just to add that if TTA was as good a defender as Robertson, then he would be the best right back in England.?

 

[PJ87]

I haven’t missed the point, I know what you are trying to say.
In my opinion he’d still be better than average to good at any other Premier league side.

He wouldn't get the freedom to get forward as much at lesser club tho, his defending isn't in question but his crossing is what makes hike outstanding

 

[Swango1980]

I totally get what you are saying but am not sure Burnley is the best example. From what I have seen at the moment they are far and away the best footballing team in the championship. The football they are playing is remarkable compared to when Burnley played under Dyche. Which leads me to another ( I think ) valid point. Does a lot of getting the best out of players lie with the manager. As you mention TH must know what he will get out of a player who would fit into his system. ?

Just to clarify, I was talking about the Burnley that played in the Premier League that got relegated, the side Weghorst played for at the time, and scored 2 goals in 20. If he played for Burnley in the Championship, I wouldn't be surprised if his record was better.

Yes, the manager will be the key. To be honest, more now than ever, I feel the biggest asset at the club is the manager, especially if they are allowed enough flexibility to do their job (i.e. a say in transfers). They are the ones that coach the side (or manage the whole set up to ensure they have the right coaches in place) and manage the players expectations, egos and confidence. A good manager will give confidence to his players and the fans, so that even if things go wrong (which they will), they are able to pin point the problems and confident in how to deal with them, and everyone is confident they will. And, importantly, they will know exactly the type of players they need in the team, in terms of ability and mentality. And, they will know exactly which players they need to get rid off. Not just bad eggs, but even just to keep things fresh.

 

[Swango1980]

Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.

I'm not sure he'd have too many assists if he played for Wolves , Forest or Everton? In that case, would he really stand out as being a top left back? Did he stand out as being just as good as he is now when he was at Hull City, or has he been allowed to shine since moving to Liverpool? Klopp also plays a system that puts a lot of importance on his full backs. At other clubs, Robertson may simply not get the same opportunities to show what he can do.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.

Is looking at the number of assists the best way to assess how good a defender is? Not in my opinion. Surely you have to look at the defensive side of his game to assess him as a defender not look at his attacking stats. It's a bit like looking at the number of defensive headers Kane makes from set pieces to decide how good he is as a forward.

 

[PJ87]

Is looking at the number of assists the best way to assess how good a defender is? Not in my opinion. Surely you have to look at the defensive side of his game to assess him as a defender not look at his attacking stats. It's a bit like looking at the number of defensive headers Kane makes from set pieces to decide how good he is as a forward.

No that's the point tho, you need to look at both

Yes he is a good defender but did that stand out at hull? If you stuck him at West ham would he be as good defensively? No I don't believe

But stick cresswell in Liverpool team and he would look better than he does for us .. and he's rubbish

Basically Liverpool allow him to be the best he can

Is he amazing for Scotland?

 

[Slime]