SSS query

[louise_a]

While playing Formby ladies yesterday, I pickec up a card for Formby as well. I have been looking at it today and was quite surised to see that although Par from both the Whites and Reds is 72, SSS from the Whites is 74 but SSS from the Reds is only 70, The course from the Reds is 6048 yds which is long from the Reds. By comparision the Ladies course is 5374 yds longs and is par 71 SSS 72.
Just a little bemused with the differences.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

There's a document on the CONGU site that explains how SSS is calculated. Will see if I can find it for you

 

[Imurg]

They take length into account as well as difficulty/placement of hazards etc based on a Scratch Player playing the course on a "normal" day and hitting the ball set distances..
So hazards that are on the driving line from the White tee and come into play because of their positioning, may not be on the driving line or come into play when using another tee. So the hole may well play a shot easier for the Scratch player when playing from that tee - hence the lower score he would post, hence the lower SSS.
I suspect they use a Lady Scratch player for determining Ladies SSS but don't quote me...

A Par 4 could be 250 yards or 450. You'd expect a Scratch player to birdie a 250 yard par 4 but probably only par a 450 yarder.
A hole playing 420 yards from the Whites might only play 370 from the Yellows and 330 from the Reds. Assuming no great hazards I'd possibly expect Par, Birdie, Birdie score from each tee from a Scratch player.

Some courses are more tricky and have SSS higher than par - meaning your Scratch player would turn in a score over par on the "normal" day.

 

[stevie_r]

The online manual is here:

http://www.congu.com/online_version.htm

 

[MashieNiblick]

The online manual is here:

http://www.congu.com/online_version.htm

That seems to be the handicap guide.

SSS guide is here

http://archive.englishgolfunion.org.uk/documents/Guide_to_SSS.pdf

I think that is still current.

Would say that Imurg's summary of relationship between par and SSS is spot on.

 

[stevie_r]

That seems to be the handicap guide.

SSS guide is here

http://archive.englishgolfunion.org.uk/documents/Guide_to_SSS.pdf

I think that is still current.

Would say that Imurg's summary of relationship between par and SSS is spot on.

Part three of those documents is entitled 'The Golf Course/Standard Scratch Score/Course Rating' and details the numerous factors taken into account when allocating SSS

 

[FairwayDodger]

Good synopsis from Imurg but I understand where you're coming from, Louise.

Without knowing the course or seeing the breakdown by hole that does seem rather long so (based only on that yardage) it'd surprise me too to see the SSS two under par. Are there any short and/or relatively easy holes in there?

 

[rosecott]

That seems to be the handicap guide.

SSS guide is here

http://archive.englishgolfunion.org.uk/documents/Guide_to_SSS.pdf

I think that is still current.

Would say that Imurg's summary of relationship between par and SSS is spot on.

I stand to be corrected but I think the document was published before amalgamation and does not apply to SSS assessment for Ladies - reference to 260 yard drives for example. I accompanied the assessors when our course was re-assessed in 2012 and the SSS for Ladies was not on the agenda. I don't think things have changed yet following the amalgamation.

 

[Foxholer]

While playing Formby ladies yesterday, I pickec up a card for Formby as well. I have been looking at it today and was quite surised to see that although Par from both the Whites and Reds is 72, SSS from the Whites is 74 but SSS from the Reds is only 70, The course from the Reds is 6048 yds which is long from the Reds. By comparision the Ladies course is 5374 yds longs and is par 71 SSS 72.
Just a little bemused with the differences.

I'd strongly suspect that all SSS entries on Formby are for Men. The online card for Formby Ladies has a Mens SSS of 67.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Good synopsis from Imurg but I understand where you're coming from, Louise.

Without knowing the course or seeing the breakdown by hole that does seem rather long so (based only on that yardage) it'd surprise me too to see the SSS two under par. Are there any short and/or relatively easy holes in there?

I've played both once in the last year, and Formby ladies if mainly hitting a 220+ yard drive, most times you had a 140 yard 8 iron in or less (for me), at least for the par 4's.

Formby mans course - you go right through the bag. The tree line is a lot tighter, heather is about the same. Smaller greens generally on the ladies course, though, although the bunkers were generally not very deep, and were more like greenise sand-traps.

None of the above may help in giving you a good basis for SSS, I don't know. Formby ladies only had red tees though, no yellows/whites.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'd strongly suspect that all SSS entries on Formby are for Men. The online card for Formby Ladies has a Mens SSS of 67.

Now that sounds plausible and would make sense.

BTW I've now been on the website for both these courses - look good!

 

[duncan mackie]

While playing Formby ladies yesterday, I pickec up a card for Formby as well. I have been looking at it today and was quite surised to see that although Par from both the Whites and Reds is 72, SSS from the Whites is 74 but SSS from the Reds is only 70, The course from the Reds is 6048 yds which is long from the Reds. By comparision the Ladies course is 5374 yds longs and is par 71 SSS 72.
Just a little bemused with the differences.

you have got me - I have no idea which difference of what's bemusing!

if the white tee mens yardage was around the 6900 then 6800/74 6000/70 is pretty straightforward
ladies 5400/72 doesn't look particularily unusual
we all know that mens and ladies SSS aren't closely related :ears: but that's not an issue

so I remain confused - unless the white yardage isnt' anywhere near 6900?

 

[louise_a]

Thanks for all the comments,

Foxholer , I can see you reasoning bhowever 2 of the par 5s from the red are 428 and 440 respectively, surely they would be par 4s if they were on a men's card.

FD, the holes are quite long for a ladies course, six of the par 4s are over 360yds, with one being 410yds.

I still have a card from Hillside, the yardage from the Reds there is less than Formby at 5888 yds although the SSS is 75 there