Speed of Play! Etiquette?

[Jacko_G]

How do we battle this?

On Sunday I played our season opener AM-AM competition. Our team consisted of two guys in their 60's, one in his 50's and me the young whippersnapper in his 40's. Thankfully we were out first at 0800 hours and were round in 3 hours 45 minutes which is pretty reasonable going for Mach Dunes as it is a fair walk.

Anyway the second game finished a full 45 minutes behind us! How is it possible for game 2 to lose three, maybe four holes on the first game? It sets the tone and pace for the rest of the field and is really poor.

Medals are just as bad now, over 4 hours for 3 balls, why?

I am by no means the quickest player but I know to be ready to play, I know where to leave my clubs, I know when I should be tending the flag and to be ready to play when its my turn (if we're not playing ready golf - which we often do)so we maintain pace.

Is etiquette the issue? Are clubs not doing enough to promote and enforce this? The amount of golfers I see leaving bags at the front of greens or the opposite side of the green to the next tee, golfers standing chatting or farting about instead of being ready to play etc etc leads me to believe that clubs needs to bring etiquette up fairly regularly to try and educate a lot of "ignorant" golfers.

 

[Jamesbrown]

My club is only just advertising ready play as the way golf needs to be played now. Though lots do.
(Ladies section not so much, they really are slow and hopefully they’ll get some education this season)

One fourball I see made of some old timers. They play an extreme version of ready play. Once one has tee’d off he’s walking up the fairway. And so on. It looks very fluid and impressive.

clubs need to be promoting ready play, letting people through etc. I’d like to see signs on the Tees.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It comes down to education, but sadly every club has those that are a regular problem with their slow play and I'd argue the majority would say they aren't slow or cause any issues. Those players will refuse to accept there is a problem and so there is no amount of education or initiatives that will change that. Ready golf may make a difference.

Similarly we have certain groups especially in the Saturday roll ups that precede our own, that will never let you through and even when a hole down will find some laughable excuse why there isn't a problem and why you can't come through. In competitive play, I would set a maximum (for my club of four and a half hours) for a medal or stableford. That's probably 30 minutes longer than it takes on average but I appreciate some golfers and groups could have a bad day and several playing provisionals on some holes hence the leeway. After that, I'd be getting the comp secretary/captain to be getting an explanation for the delay if they miss the time slot, issue a warning second time, and penalise with a shot penalty for a third offence.

 

[ademac]

I think clubs do need to make people more aware of it and enforce it much more.
Volunteer course marshalls maybe at the busiest times?
Nothing too heavy but somebody out there to help things along and keep people aware throughout the round.

 

[fundy]

It comes down to education, but sadly every club has those that are a regular problem with their slow play and I'd argue the majority would say they aren't slow or cause any issues. Those players will refuse to accept there is a problem and so there is no amount of education or initiatives that will change that. Ready golf may make a difference.

Similarly we have certain groups especially in the Saturday roll ups that precede our own, that will never let you through and even when a hole down will find some laughable excuse why there isn't a problem and why you can't come through. In competitive play, I would set a maximum (for my club of four and a half hours) for a medal or stableford. That's probably 30 minutes longer than it takes on average but I appreciate some golfers and groups could have a bad day and several playing provisionals on some holes hence the leeway. After that, I'd be getting the comp secretary/captain to be getting an explanation for the delay if they miss the time slot, issue a warning second time, and penalise with a shot penalty for a third offence.

so why dont your club do anything about the aforementioned groups?

 

[fundy]

Club i left in November comp rounds in 3 balls were a guaranteed 4 hours and often 4 1/2hours for 3 balls. 6600 yard course, a couple of longish walks but nothing too great. 4 hours for me was on the slow side, anything slower was torture, waiting on most tee boxes etc.

Committee have tried marshalling but ultimately never issued enough sanctions to bother people, especially those who believed theyd paid their money and had the right to take as long as they wanted. Biggest issue there was actually the 8 minute start gaps and that they werent even adhered too, people would tee off as soon as the group in front was out of range which ensured it was backed up before it started. 1st a par 5 second a par 3 and a guaranteed 5 minute wait.

On the plus side we got the rough cut down on 8 and the tee brought forward as that was causing the biggest bottle neck (220 yard par 3)

But the proprietary owner wouldnt allow any longer gaps as it ate into the later tee slots where he was making over a ton a 4 ball which left little other room for manoeuvre and its got to the point where 4 1/2 hours is now deemed acceptable by most and if you dont like it then tough

Easier to make bigger changes in members clubs than proprietary ones I guess but its a golf problem full stop and the pro game is certainly not helping the pace of play for the rest of us

 

[HomerJSimpson]

so why dont your club do anything about the aforementioned groups?

No idea. It's been raised jokingly, politely and forcefully to the groups in the clubhouse after, been put in writing several times and it simply gets brushed under the carpet. If the club isn't fussed about slow social play then it's not going to be self-policed. We do have a marshal but what powers does he really have? He can't oik a slow group of fee paying members off or insist they let others through so it's a waste of time

 

[ademac]

I played the brabazon recently and was told at the start that we should be finished 9 holes in 2hrs 30mins (I think) and finished 18 in 4hrs 40mins, which is plenty of time IMO.
We spoke to the marshall a couple of times on the course as it slowed up a bit in front of us and he said that he made a couple of groups miss a hole out to catch up. I thought this was a good solution to be honest.
I guess at club level (not the brabazon) its difficult for the clubs to be this strict as they are afraid of upsetting people and potentially losing business/members if they enforce it so strongly.
Slow play has been a big issue in golf since I started playing 10 years ago and I havent seen any real improvement in playing times. For me it is the most frustrating aspect of the sport but as it is mainly out of my control I am starting to think that I just need to suck it up and accept that golf is a slow game and might ultimately even become a slower game because not much seems to be done at almost every level.

 

[duncan mackie]

No idea. It's been raised jokingly, politely and forcefully to the groups in the clubhouse after, been put in writing several times and it simply gets brushed under the carpet. If the club isn't fussed about slow social play then it's not going to be self-policed. We do have a marshal but what powers does he really have? He can't oik a slow group of fee paying members off or insist they let others through so it's a waste of time

Why can't he?

What's the point of employing a Marshall if he can't implement club policy?

Or doesn't the club subscribe to the etiquette principles in the Rules? (Which the other part of your response suggests...)

 

[duncan mackie]

I played the brabazon recently and was told at the start that we should be finished 9 holes in 2hrs 30mins (I think) and finished 18 in 4hrs 40mins, which is plenty of time IMO.
We spoke to the marshall a couple of times on the course as it slowed up a bit in front of us and he said that he made a couple of groups miss a hole out to catch up. I thought this was a good solution to be honest.
I guess at club level (not the brabazon) its difficult for the clubs to be this strict as they are afraid of upsetting people and potentially losing business/members if they enforce it so strongly.
Slow play has been a big issue in golf since I started playing 10 years ago and I havent seen any real improvement in playing times. For me it is the most frustrating aspect of the sport but as it is mainly out of my control I am starting to think that I just need to suck it up and accept that golf is a slow game and might ultimately even become a slower game because not much seems to be done at almost every level.

The enlightened ones have realised that they risk losing many more members if they don't - accepting that it has to be done in the right way, of course.

 

[ademac]

The enlightened ones have realised that they risk losing many more members if they don't - accepting that it has to be done in the right way, of course.

Thats good to hear. I've been away from the game for a few years so not really seen much at club level.

 

[Tommo21]

How do we battle this?

On Sunday I played our season opener AM-AM competition. Our team consisted of two guys in their 60's, one in his 50's and me the young whippersnapper in his 40's. Thankfully we were out first at 0800 hours and were round in 3 hours 45 minutes which is pretty reasonable going for Mach Dunes as it is a fair walk.

Anyway the second game finished a full 45 minutes behind us! How is it possible for game 2 to lose three, maybe four holes on the first game? It sets the tone and pace for the rest of the field and is really poor.

Medals are just as bad now, over 4 hours for 3 balls, why?

I am by no means the quickest player but I know to be ready to play, I know where to leave my clubs, I know when I should be tending the flag and to be ready to play when its my turn (if we're not playing ready golf - which we often do)so we maintain pace.

Is etiquette the issue? Are clubs not doing enough to promote and enforce this? The amount of golfers I see leaving bags at the front of greens or the opposite side of the green to the next tee, golfers standing chatting or farting about instead of being ready to play etc etc leads me to believe that clubs needs to bring etiquette up fairly regularly to try and educate a lot of "ignorant" golfers.

Easy....the group behind didn't give a monkeys. They can play provisional s, loose balls, three putt greens...whatever. BUT they should have been keeping up with the group in front. I get the odd pelter when I say we're loosing ground or we need to get a move on, but I dont give a toss because it's what we should do, especially if groups behind are backing up. We need to be aware of others and you only need to walk a little faster to catch up after loosing ground.

Also, many people dont know if they loose ground and the group behind are clearly faster then they should invite them through. If done properly not much time is lost.

BUT.....the biggest issue is the groups who see play is slowing to also slow their play, backing up the whole field. Funeral pace.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

We recently played on holiday and were a 3 ball, started 2 holes behind a 2 ball, they had no one in front and by hole 7 we were waiting on them, iirc I think we ended up round in 3.45 hours, they must have been over 4 hours for a 2 ball. We were not offered to play tho but that wasn't to slow, so were happy.

Normally as a 3 ball we would be 3.15ish hrs, thats mid/high handicappers but we don't overaly look for balls in the rough.

To be honest I lose interest/enjoyment if I am in a 4 ball that is slower than about 4.15 hours, so grateful our main club is a quiet club and we make sure we play at quiet times.

Don't think there is answer as everyone has a different measure of what is slow and quick and to be fair everyone has paid their dues and their own pace.

 

[HankMarvin]

At Gleneagles we can normally get round depending who is in front of you in 3 hours 45 minutes quicker if you get out early but on no competition days they allocate 5 hours a round, still never seen it taking the full 5 hours 4 hours 30 minutes is about the longest but you can get some right Choppers in front of you

 

[Imurg]

You need to know why the following group was so far behind.
If they had to look for a ball on every other hole, that can easily add 40 minutes to a round - and if they weren't pressured by the group behind them, maybe for the same reason, then their play isn't slow due to etiquette.
But it is due to marking cards on greens, not being ready to play, etc etc etc then they need to be educated.

 

[patricks148]

i thinks down to people in general are less considerate now days. I want to enjoy "my" game and will do that despite anyone else.

My place, We reg get round in 3 hours in a medal in around the same time slot most weeks, if you play later and Sunday far longer. its got to the stage now i don't play on a Sunday unless i can help it, as most of those that do, won't let faster groups through.

 

[Junior]

i thinks down to people in general are less considerate now days. I want to enjoy "my" game and will do that despite anyone else.

This. Also, people tend to be more 'leisurely' these days, chatting socially whilst walking in the opposite direction to where they have hit there ball because they're still debating the weekend footy results or whether to get those custom fit irons they have been hankering for.

Don't get me wrong, of course it's nice to chat and be pleasant, and I don't mean sprint to your ball as soon as you have hit it......but the cause of slow play these days for me is more to do with peoples attitude towards their round rather than things like leaving their bags the wrong side of a green etc.

 

[Jacko_G]

This. Also, people tend to be more 'leisurely' these days, chatting socially whilst walking in the opposite direction to where they have hit there ball because they're still debating the weekend footy results or whether to get those custom fit irons they have been hankering for.

Don't get me wrong, of course it's nice to chat and be pleasant, and I don't mean sprint to your ball as soon as you have hit it......but the cause of slow play these days for me is more to do with peoples attitude towards their round rather than things like leaving their bags the wrong side of a green etc.

Do you not think that is a consequence of yapping away and not concentrating/thinking about what they are doing?

I still believe etiquette is missing. A lot of golfers just don't understand or are blissfully unaware of their responsibilities in aiding the flow of the course. Even simple things like letting a faster group through now seems to be lacking from some golfers mind set. I played with an 11 handicap golfer in an open last year who didn't know to tend the flag!

As you say a friendly sociable round is absolutely fine but be aware of others and what you can do to ensure that others are not impacted.

I still believe golf clubs/committees/professionals/starters etc need to gently remind golfers at every opportunity to be aware.

 

[Slab]

As we all it 300+ now the courses had to toughen up just to make a game of it so rough became ridiculous and just spotting the correct off-fairway landing area to search in is much harder when the ball is so far away so we’re probably looking 30 yards from where the ball actually is anyway and just wasting 5 minutes and the courses that did lengthen now means it’s a 10 mile walk to play a round when it used to be 4½

Also 6 minute tee spacing means we’re all queuing at the first par 3 for 10 minutes which due to poor design 120 years ago is probably the 2nd or 3rd hole and clubs are too stupid to realise the daily player capacity is actually greater with bigger spacing and shorter rounds
Also everyone takes an age to search for balls because they’ve just spent £60 in the shop on a box of the market leading ball because they mistakenly believe they can control the spin it can give and don’t want to lose £5 on the 2nd hole
Also because of aimpoint etc we’ve all mastered putting so to make it challenging they now stick pins 23” on a slope behind pot bunkers on a non-comp Sunday morning with double cut greens (when the practice green was single cut)
Also courses are full of carts selling beers and sandwiches that folk stop for 10 minutes to munch on before doing the same at the halfway hut three holes later and then slowing yet again to get your change when the cart comes back because you only had a Scottish £20 note for a mars bar
Also fewer people are going to church these days preferring to take Gods name in vain on the course instead so it overloads the start sheet
Also everyone has to know everyone else's opinion on everything so they'll all invariably start a feud at some point in the round about parking spaces in the clubhouse or brexit instead of playing golf
Also the courses are full of ‘Lord Nelson’ types with miniature telescopes up to their eyes tying to laser an azalea bush 20 yards from the pin because the flag is too limp to hit
Also they then take far too long choosing between the 5 wedges we have with a 4 yard spacing between them when we’re actually 140 yards away facing a 2 club wind

Also….

 

[clubchamp98]

It’s just that some people want a walk with their mates and some want a sprint!
Its just good manners to let a faster group through but good manners these days are sadly lacking and it’s not just in golf!.

Some just don’t understand that their actions impact on others they are oblivious and think it’s always somebody else’s fault.
I just can’t see this changing at all.????