Smoothing the bunker to care for the course

[Colin L]

Judging by some of the comments in the thread, it might be useful to point out the limitations of the 'caring for the course' clause. Caring for the course does not exempt you from the restrictions to touching the sand in a bunker specified in Rule 8.1 when your ball is in the bunker. Rule 12.2b(2) makes this clear:
But the player gets the general penalty if their actions in touching the sand improve the conditions affecting the strokein breach of Rule 8.1a. (See also Rules 8.2 and 8.3 for limitations on improving or worsening other physical conditions to affect play.)

 

[clubchamp98]

Are any of us good enough to be able to gain any knowledge from using a rake in a bunker to care for the course.
Could you learn anything more than you can from moving your feet into the sand ?
Some might be able to but I would say 99% could not!


I always mark my ball but that’s more for me than anyone else.

 

[Troymcclure]

If I rake my footsteps from retrieving the rake nowhere near my ball, with the sole intention of caring for the course, but in so doing learn something (hypothetically speaking that is - I’m with clubchamp, I’d learn nothing advantageous) about the conditions, can I assume I’m not in breach as the knowledge gained was as a consequence of the raking, not the intention?

 

[Colin L]

Yes you can. Intention to gain information for your next stroke is necessary for there to be a breach. You didn't have that intention and so anything you might find out is by chance.

If, as a referee, I saw you raking footprints in a normal manner away from the prohibited area I doubt I would think twice about it.

 

[Troymcclure]

Thanks Colin. So have you ever yourself, or heard tale of another referee, declared a breach of the rule?

Surely if it’s obvious enough that they’re testing conditions by raking, is it not more likely that they know they’re breaking a rule rather than making an honest un-informed mistake? Therefore a cheat. And surely a cheat would lie and say they were caring for the course when confronted? Because they’re a cheat.

Which just leaves those deliberately testing conditions, without knowing it’s a rule breach. I can’t believe that’s a common occurrence. Especially when most of us play in bunkers that vary drastically from one square yard to another.

 

[cliveb]

Which just leaves those deliberately testing conditions, without knowing it’s a rule breach. I can’t believe that’s a common occurrence. Especially when most of us play in bunkers that vary drastically from one square yard to another.

If the bunker conditions vary so much from place to place, there's not really much point in testing the conditions away from the ball, is there?

 

[Troymcclure]

If the bunker conditions vary so much from place to place, there's not really much point in testing the conditions away from the ball, is there?

I agree, which is why I’m curious if anyone ever incurs the penalty.

Caring for the course golfer hasn’t transgressed.

Cheat golfer lies about his intentions.

And the group you’ve highlighted we agree don’t exist.

So who ever gets penalised for this rule breach?

 

[rulie]

I agree, which is why I’m curious if anyone ever incurs the penalty.

Caring for the course golfer hasn’t transgressed.

Cheat golfer lies about his intentions.

And the group you’ve highlighted we agree don’t exist.

So who ever gets penalised for this rule breach?

The Rules are written and intended for honest players. Cheats do cheat.
See Colin's post #61 above for when there will be a penalty.

 

[Troymcclure]

The Rules are written and intended for honest players. Cheats do cheat.
See Colin's post #61 above for when there will be a penalty.

I understand when there will be a penalty. I’m asking if Colin, or any referee, has ever invoked the Rule.

 

[rulie]

I understand when there will be a penalty. I’m asking if Colin, or any referee, has ever invoked the Rule.

Personally, I have not in any of the competitions where I've been refereeing. However, all of those competitions have involved "careful" players. Careful players do not put themselves into positions where they may be penalized.

 

[hambugerpete]

I understand when there will be a penalty. I’m asking if Colin, or any referee, has ever invoked the Rule.

I have heard others say it's a pen to fellow golfers.

 

[Colin L]

I understand when there will be a penalty. I’m asking if Colin, or any referee, has ever invoked the Rule.

No. Never had to. Never been close and never heard of anyone else coming across a breach. I did, however, have to give a player a code of conduct warning once for giving the sand a thrashing after a mishit, on the grounds that nobody cared if he trashed a hundred or more pounds worth of his own club but the sand wasn't his to punish.

And I once had to penalise a player for testing the ground behind his ball in a mainly dried out water hazard (it was a while ago!) by sticking a finger into the soil to see how wet it was. It was a youth tournament and although the player took the penalty without argument, I was accosted later on by his father intent on telling me that I was wrong and not pleased to be told that even without the testing aspect, the lad wasn't allowed to touch the ground. It was one of the few times I've had to resort to saying that the ruling was made and not up for discussion.

Water hazard, now penalty area rules have been so much easier since 2019.

 

[clubchamp98]

I have only seen a TV golf report.
The penalty was given to a player for marching through a green side bunker in front of him ( not the one he was in) to look at the green.
He raked his footprints and was given a penalty because it was on the line of play to the flag.!
If I’ve remembered it correctly.

 

[rulefan]

I understand when there will be a penalty. I’m asking if Colin, or any referee, has ever invoked the Rule.

I have never invoked a penalty nor had a need to consider it when refereeing or competing. But a couple of times in very social play I have commented "you can't do that there 'ere".

 

[Troymcclure]

I have heard others say it's a pen to fellow golfers.

And did any of the incidents result in a penalty being applied?

 

[Troymcclure]

I’m curious how often the penalty ever gets applied. From tour events through elite amateur events all the way down to club comps/matches. I’m guessing it’s virtually never. Our resident referees have never needed to apply it.

Seems even less likely to me to happen at club level. Accusations yes, but ones that actually result in the penalty being applied?

 

[Steven Rules]

I’m asking if Colin, or any referee, has ever invoked the Rule.

I don't ever recall seeing this rule being breached - not in social play, club-level competitions, nor elite tournament play. Not in my capacity as a player, fellow-competirltor, or referee.

I think it is one of those rules that everybody** knows is a definite no-no and breaches are easy to avoid.

As others have said on this and other threads, cheats will cheat, but I personally have never seen anyone cheating at at this one.

As a general principle in relation to possible rule breaches, I try to intervene and warn a player if I have an inkling that they are about to do something to breach a rule.

 

[rulie]

I don't ever recall seeing this rule being breached - not in social play, club-level competitions, nor elite tournament play. Not in my capacity as a player, fellow-competirltor, or referee.

I think it is one of those rules that everybody** knows is a definite no-no and breaches are easy to avoid.

As others have said on this and other threads, cheats will cheat, but I personally have never seen anyone cheating at at this one.

As a general principle in relation to possible rule breaches, I try to intervene and warn a player if I have an inkling that they are about to do something to breach a rule.

Absolutely. As referees, we are there to help the competition be played within the Rules - that is what the players and committees expect.
Golf referees don't wear striped or different coloured shirts and don't carry whistles. As stated, we're there to help play within the Rules, but also to apply the Rules to situations that occur.

 

[Slab]

Can I just say, how cool is it that we have so many (is it 5 or 6) qualified referees contributing regularly on the forum, so we can pester and annoy them with our questions, queries and occasional nonsense
Not to mention the other folks who have a great level of rules knowledge adding their own thoughts

Thanks all

 

[Neilds]

Can I just say, how cool is it that we have so many (is it 5 or 6) qualified referees contributing regularly on the forum, so we can pester and annoy them with our questions, queries and occasional nonsense
Not to mention the other folks who have a great level of rules knowledge adding their own thoughts

Thanks all

Thought we didn’t like referees on this forum - or is that just on the football thread ?

PS - love our rules experts, helps me pass on knowledge to my golf group