Slow play again

[Backsticks]

People who want to be able to play their second shot when they reach their tee shot but can't because there is a slower group in front holding them up.
Telling the fast players to slow down or the slow players to speed up is not going to work.

The mistake is to see that as a problem, and in need of some solution.

It is simply a fact of life, dealing with humans, and the variability of golf (a 90 shooter with perfectly reasonably take 15 minutes longer to play 18 holes - ay exactly the same golf pace). People are not all going to take the same time to play a round. To expect so is unreasonable.
Such differences can be allowed for with longer tee intervals, thus building in some buffer time, or cencertina of the field. But that reduces the overall number than can be accomodated on the course. And so it is better just to have the faster players wait to play their shots.

 

[D-S]

The mistake is to see that as a problem, and in need of some solution.

It is simply a fact of life, dealing with humans, and the variability of golf (a 90 shooter with perfectly reasonably take 15 minutes longer to play 18 holes - ay exactly the same golf pace). People are not all going to take the same time to play a round. To expect so is unreasonable.
Such differences can be allowed for with longer tee intervals, thus building in some buffer time, or cencertina of the field. But that reduces the overall number than can be accomodated on the course. And so it is better just to have the faster players wait to play their shots.

So a 6 hour round is ok?

 

[jim8flog]

One of the things I am in total agreement with Bobmac over is that if a round of golf regularly took 5 hours I would give up playing.

The only times I have been on the course for a round of 5 hours in in pro/ams and that was mainly down to 'refreshment' stops.

 

[D-S]

The only times I have been on the course for a round of 5 hours in in pro/ams

So it seems as if the Pros are really the problem then.

 

[jim8flog]

So it seems as if the Pros are really the problem then.

selectively quoting!!

We used to have 6 or so 'refreshment' stops at our course (all sponsored, so with free food and drinks).

 

[D-S]

selectively quoting!!

We used to have 6 or so 'refreshment' stops at our course (all sponsored, so with free food and drinks).

Apologies, it was meant as a flippant comment.

 

[PaulMdj]

Slow play came up in conversation today at the Club, one of the guys made a statement which I found interesting.

He believes a lot of the issue these days is caused by people playing in Comps off handicaps above 18, his point was, was that 15-20yrs ago you could join the Club but not play in a comp until your handicap was 18 or below, now he has nothing against higher handicaps, but he believed most worked harder to get their handicap down and over time had also become more aware of ettiquette, rules, pace of play, less lost balls, etc.

He might be totally wrong, but it gave some people something to think about.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@PaulMdj I think that's a lazy argument from the guy. Easy to make but lazy.

That assumes that lower handicap players are faster. I give you the psr, the repeated lasering.

Then we get to etiquette. No older player, who went through this regime, never puts their bag in the wrong place? Never isn't ready to take their shot? Never refuses to let quicker players through? ................

It's like the argument of kids in their day had respect for their elders, unlike today

 

[PaulMdj]

@PaulMdj I think that's a lazy argument from the guy. Easy to make but lazy.

That assumes that lower handicap players are faster. I give you the psr, the repeated lasering.

Then we get to etiquette. No older player, who went through this regime, never puts their bag in the wrong place? Never isn't ready to take their shot? Never refuses to let quicker players through? ................

It's like the argument of kids in their day had respect for their elders, unlike today

Is 18 a low handicap? We have people playing off 40+ handicaps in Comps, no issues with that, but 3 extra shots on some Par 4’s?
Somebody slowly doing their PSR or lasering a target once a hole, got to be quicker than the guy taking 3 more shots.

Lack of skill out of hazards, more lost balls. Knowledge of rules etc

It may not be all the reasons, but some of it may give food for thought

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Is 18 a low handicap? We have people playing off 40+ handicaps in Comps, no issues with that, but 3 extra shots on some Par 4’s?
Somebody slowly doing their PSR or lasering a target once a hole, got to be quicker than the guy taking 3 more shots.

Lack of skill out of hazards, more lost balls. Knowledge of rules etc

It may not be all the reasons, but some of it may give food for thought

I think there are a range of reasons. Extra shots has to impact, it's inevitable, but to ignore people just being slow because they are is not right.

A good question to ask, don't know the answer, how many 40+ players does your club have playing in comps? I'd guess very few. Then ask, if you have any, where are they playing in the comp, are they the ones slowing the comp down or has that already happened?

 

[PaulMdj]

I think there are a range of reasons. Extra shots has to impact, it's inevitable, but to ignore people just being slow because they are is not right.

A good question to ask, don't know the answer, how many 40+ players does your club have playing in comps? I'd guess very few. Then ask, if you have any, where are they playing in the comp, are they the ones slowing the comp down or has that already happened?

No one is ignoring slow players, all he said was, in his opinion, high handicappers playing in comps has contributed to slow play, ie, he never said it was the only element.

I totally agree players of all handicaps are slow, but their slowness may not be down to playing in Comps after only maybe a month playing the game or as quick as they’ve got their first handicap.

His point that those who were 18 and below had spent many, many months playing the game and were more aware of rules, what was expected of them etc.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think it would be interesting to know how many high handicappers you actually have playing in comps. The perception is probably greater than the reality. (I don't intend that you actually look this up but I know from past experience of threads when this has come up that the actual number of h/h playing comps is actually very low. So low that they really don't impact many other groups)

 

[Hobbit]

I’m not sure players are any slower nowadays than it was 30yrs ago. However, the number of players has increased quite a bit. It’s a bit like an economies of scale thing. Once upon a time you might get 100-120 in a competition. X% would be slower for, in the main, very valid reasons. X= a number of extra minutes added too. But if there’s now X times 2 playing on a Saturday, the number of extra minutes will be doubled too.

Bit of a generalisation but…

 

[Tashyboy]

Played on Tuesday and I set my watch when I teed off.4 hrs 17 mins. A PP finished the round moaning like the clappers.He reckoned it took 4 hrs 40 mins.He wanted a full on discussion re slow play. No one was interested. It was a steady round but not one where I was moaning about slow play.

 

[MadAdey]

We had a chat in the clubhouse last year about it taking around over 4 1/2 hours to get round on a Saturday. Someone made a really good point at what he believes to be one of the biggest causes and i think he made a good point. What has really changed in the game over the last 10 years or so? The amount of players that are not bothered about being good, they just enjoy going out with their friends and having a good time. They are not regular golfers and have no intention of practicing to get better. Meaning that maybe the standard of golfer that is out there is what is causing problems.

I have nothing against beginners and high handicap players at all as everyone deserves to go and play this beautiful game and get from it what they want. The thing is when I go out with my regular friends and we are probably only having around 280 shots between us and not really looking for balls, of course we are going to be going round in under 4 hours. Now compare that to a group of 100 shooters. They will take around 400 shots between them and most likely be looking for balls a lot more they are going to take a lot longer that n a group of good standard golfers. Think about it...................they are taking anything from 20-40% more shots than a group of good standard golfers and looking for more balls. Of course, they are going to be taking closer to 5 hours instead of 4.

If anyone says that the average handicap has not really changed is not thinking straight. I could give you a huge list of people that play recreationally and do not even have an official handicap, I am one of them. People are not all club members like 20 years ago, so never actually hold an official handicap, so they do not show up on and stats regarding average handicaps.

 

[Backsticks]

So a 6 hour round is ok?

That is a different question. If people want to fill a round with activity (aligning lines on balls, lasers, half way beer trucks American style, etc) that takes 6 hours, then I guess, yes, thats what golfers want.

But I am not referring to 6 hour rounds here. I mean there will maybe be 30 minutes variation between faster and slower (whether due to simply hitting 20 more shots, or the aimpoint, or both, for example). So shorter round players need to accept that a consequence of their fast play is that they will spend up to 30 minutes waiting to play. Vilifying others as 'wasting my time', 'spoiling my round', 'haven got all day' type comments, makes no sense. (anyway : if you can get to course, boot up, play a round for 4 hours plus or minus whatever, etc, then they idea that another 30 minutes is ruining your golfing life, is bonkers).

The anti slow play lobby has gotten carried away with its own irrationality.

 

[Backsticks]

One of the things I am in total agreement with Bobmac over is that if a round of golf regularly took 5 hours I would give up playing.

The only times I have been on the course for a round of 5 hours in in pro/ams and that was mainly down to 'refreshment' stops.

Really ? You have 4.5 hours. But 5 hours means you give up the game.
Catastrophising ?

 

[sunshine]

But I am not referring to 6 hour rounds here. I mean there will maybe be 30 minutes variation between faster and slower

A fast group might take 3 hours, a slow group 5. That 2 hour difference is huge and has a significant detrimental impact.

Let’s accept that speed of play has a normal distribution, with a mean/median just under 4 hours (depends on the course). It’s only the outliers who need to adapt.

 

[Mandofred]

Really ? You have 4.5 hours. But 5 hours means you give up the game.
Catastrophising ?

No he isn't. If I knew my average round of golf was going to be 5 hrs, I would stop playing. I don't know what my average round is, but I do know when it is too slow to be enjoyable. If I had to guess, I'd say anything after about 4:20 starts to annoy....but not too bad. At 4:30 I will usually have to wait on every shot, the whole round. By waiting, I don't mean 10 seconds....more. There is nothing worse than waiting on a group and watching how their playing habits are causing these delays. Putting their trolleys in places where they take more time to get another club, one person lining up a putt and nobody else is doing the same until their turn, marking cards after everybody has played while standing on the green, standing on the next tee talking about something instead of teeing off, etc etc. It isn't the lasers, gps, taking longer.....in the "old" days, I would have walked up to my ball, stood there for a bit looking for yardage markers on the course and then making a guess at far I needed to hit the ball. I don't have to "think" at all now, I quickly pull out the laser and zap the flag and grab the right club. And yes....I'm one of those people who zap the flag at 40yds....I practice 40yd shots and I don't want to guess at how far it is, I want to KNOW. I do not hold people up...I move quickly....on purpose. I'm not hurrying, I'm just not wasting time and moving slowly.

I don't know what the average rounds of all the people on this site are, but I've rarely played a round that was 4:30. I've been a member at 3 local courses, with regular plays at a couple of nearby reciprocal courses. If I had to guess 4:00 to 4:15 is probably average.

 

[Backache]

Let's face what we've all known that slow play is simply bad manners and oafish behaviour. It's not illegal though like not washing your hands and flushing the toilet, or being a drunken bore.
We can call it out for what it is oafish and lacking in respect for others but it's hard to change.