Serious breach of etiquette.

[clubchamp98]

The fact that the original question has resulted in quite a number of disparate views points me to the recommendation in the new rules that you should have a Code of Conduct for players. Such a Code would include any misconduct which a Committee thinks important enough to merit a penalty - be it one stroke, general penalty or disqualification or a an escalation from one stroke to disqualification. [Rule 1.2b] Its advanatage is that it would be specific in a way that the Rules aren't and could be added to should a misconduct situation arise that you hadn't thought about.

It's worth looking at Rule 1.2 a which cites ways in which players are expected to play "in the spirit of the game". It's very broad - no mention of details like attending the flagstick!)

Were all adults here and really should not need a code of conduct.
A request “within the rules” is fine by me!

That would still be open to differing opinions with different committees.
So at your home club it may be deemed not a problem, but somewhere else it is.

Worth a try though it’s a good idea but would need to be standardised for all clubs.

 

[Colin L]

Were all adults here and really should not need a code of conduct.
A request “within the rules” is fine by me!

That would still be open to differing opinions with different committees.
So at your home club it may be deemed not a problem, but somewhere else it is.

Worth a try though it’s a good idea but would need to be standardised for all clubs.

I see it as the opposite of standardised. It can be tailor-made by an individual club for that club's particular situation.

I haven't yet got round to discussing it for my own club and so I don't know what the view will be of its value or otherwise. I do, however, have less confidence in the reliability of all adults.

 

[Wolf]

I see it as the opposite of standardised. It can be tailor-made by an individual club for that club's particular situation.

I haven't yet got round to discussing it for my own club and so I don't know what the view will be of its value or otherwise. I do, however, have less confidence in the reliability of all adults.

I don't think this would work for a club by club individual basis, could easily make things take a step backward and allow some clubs to effectively become to almost eliteist in what they want to accept. Will rub lots up the wrong way like dress codes etc.

Imagine playing a comp well with the rules of golf at your home club and within the rules and spirit of the game etc but perhaps not tending a flag once when asked and everything being fine, but then playing an away comp same scenario occurs you posted a good score but that club DQs you.. That in itself wouldn't be in spirit of the game would it and would have people seeing some clubs as putting themselves above the rules because they or their committee that decided what they perceive to be the conduct of the game different.

Much better to have something decided as what the spirit of the game is or conduct within the rules itself then everyone sings from same hymn sheet.

 

[duncan mackie]

I don't think this would work for a club by club individual basis, could easily make things take a step backward and allow some clubs to effectively become to almost eliteist in what they want to accept. Will rub lots up the wrong way like dress codes etc.

Imagine playing a comp well with the rules of golf at your home club and within the rules and spirit of the game etc but perhaps not tending a flag once when asked and everything being fine, but then playing an away comp same scenario occurs you posted a good score but that club DQs you.. That in itself wouldn't be in spirit of the game would it and would have people seeing some clubs as putting themselves above the rules because they or their committee that decided what they perceive to be the conduct of the game different.

Much better to have something decided as what the spirit of the game is or conduct within the rules itself then everyone sings from same hymn sheet.

Whilst I agree with you in one sense, the reality is that Local Rules exist, as do Terms of Competition. Arguably you can even add Hard Cards to the equation.

By definition they aren't the same, although paradoxically Hard Cards are designed to bring a consistently to LR for any given group!

I'm not sure what you mean by 'don't think this would work' because Colin was highlighting the framework that does exist - where we definitely agree is that the additional focus (and power to penalise) within the new structure has the scope to cause problems!

 

[Wolf]

Whilst I agree with you in one sense, the reality is that Local Rules exist, as do Terms of Competition. Arguably you can even add Hard Cards to the equation.

By definition they aren't the same, although paradoxically Hard Cards are designed to bring a consistently to LR for any given group!

I'm not sure what you mean by 'don't think this would work' because Colin was highlighting the framework that does exist - where we definitely agree is that the additional focus (and power to penalise) within the new structure has the scope to cause problems!

I don't think it will work because of the structure and it being to open to interpretation and different clubs having different ideas on how to apply these things in the rules. For example a code of conduct of how we should behave within the rules of the game should be uniform through clubs not open to different interpretation at different clubs meaning I could be DQ at your club for not tending a flag but no consequence at my own, that's just a quick example based on this thread.

If your talking a code of conduct in how to carry yourself on the course then and respect others yes that works but again using this threads example a club cannot tell people that in code of conduct that they must tend a flag if asked because the rules don't state you have to only that a player has that option it doesn't cover refusal etc.

That's why I think any golfing code of conduct should be done in accordance with the rules.. And by that I mean laid out by the governing bodies not decided by a committee a lt a club and how they perceive it, people can't agree it on here so it's not going to be universally agreeable at all clubs unless laid out by the R&A

 

[rulefan]

Of course standards and traditions re behavior vary widely in different parts of the world. Think bowing, shaking hands, removing cap, kissing. Offensive in some parts. Not doing it is offensive in others.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Having just read the rule again, it clearly says "may" have the flag stick tended.

It doesn't say entitled to have it tended and doesn't say a player that's been asked has to do so if asked to do so.

Therefore I cannot see how any club using the rules of golf even through etiquette can be DQ for refusal. Nobody has a right to have it tended in the rules just they may ask for it.

Therefore whether he refuses once or 18 times according to the new rules though it may seem discourteous its not against the rules or a breach of etiquette, just a difference of opinion which I think any committee would be hard pressed to issue a DQ on and if they do sets a very bad precedence.

I think this is exactly right. That word "may " is the crux of this matter. And there is no instruction as to what the pp has to do.!
I think the rules committee in changing the rule to allow putts with the flag in, maybe should have foreseen this impasse. Easy to say I know, but they weren't written overnight,
What do you think of-
It would have made things a lot easier if "they " had said that you must decide to have the flag in or out when you put. Attended is no longer an option.!

 

[clubchamp98]

I think this is exactly right. That word "may " is the crux of this matter. And there is no instruction as to what the pp has to do.!
I think the rules committee in changing the rule to allow putts with the flag in, maybe should have foreseen this impasse. Easy to say I know, but they weren't written overnight,
What do you think of-
It would have made things a lot easier if "they " had said that you must decide to have the flag in or out when you put. Attended is no longer an option.!

At least that would be black or white.

There are lots of examples!
You don’t have to
Attend the flag.
Be quiet when pp is playing shot.
Watch pps shots to see ball flight.
Help him look for it.
Give any advice or even talk to them.
Shake hands.
And lots more!

But think the spirit of the game covers a polite request to attend the flag.!
Imagine playing with someone who did all of them.
Etiquette is part of the game and just good manners imo.

 

[rulie]

How long is this going to go on? You're beating the dead horse!

 

[clubchamp98]

How long is this going to go on? You're beating the dead horse!

Yes your right I know ,but the actual question I asked hasn’t been answered.
All reply’s are just opinions.
It will be up to the committee when it actually happens!

By the way I hate horses.

 

[rulefan]

Yes your right I know ,but the actual question I asked hasn’t been answered.
All reply’s are just opinions.

As there is no specific rule, that's all it was ever going to be. Opinions. You asked for them and got them.