Serious breach of Etiquette

Colin L

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I'm talking in general about US law. The act cited in your quote makes your law of waivers a little different and seems to be the crux of it.

We are, then, like the two women in a story about one of Scotland's famous writers who was walking down the High Street in Edinburgh with a friend when they observed the said women leaning out of their respective first floor windows on opposite sides of the narrow street engaged in a ferocious argument at full volume and colourfully blue. "These women will never agree", observed the writer. "They are arguing from different premises."
 

atticusfinch

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I believe there has been successful claims made by golfers against fellow golfers. On that basis surely a 'spectator' would have a stronger case than a golfer as the golfer/active participant would be an informed risk taker.

As with all cases: depends on the facts.
 

SteveJay

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But if the disclaimer refers to injury from a golf shot surely this wouldn't apply here.

It wasn't a shot that caused the injury. If he had thrown the club in a fit of anger and it hit someone, i.e. a more deliberate action than the misfortune/freakish accident that occurred here, there must be grounds to sue.

Makes me laugh that he was "distressed for a while" and that players seem to think a signed glove makes it all good and they can carry on acting the same way. Pity the poor fan. When will this stop? When a fan gets really seriously maimed or injured, or even dies?
 

chrisd

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I'm not a lawyer, but`I understood that disclaimers such as this cannot absolve an organisation from responsibility where there is negligence on its part.

This would be my take on it. If a spectator is 200 yards down the fairway and is hit by a ball, I guess anyone going to live golf would understand that there is a distinct possibility that this could happen, but if an angry golfer smashes his club against something in anger, and injures someone then I'd say this isn't forseesble to the injured party an is therefore actionable in law.
 

atticusfinch

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But if the disclaimer refers to injury from a golf shot surely this wouldn't apply here.

The disclaimer I quoted says: You assume all risk and danger arising out of your attendance including ***injury from a golf shot...

On the surface of it, this would include injury caused by an angry player who smashed his club in the ground, not just a golf shot.

I don't mean to imply there might not be facts that would support a suit, but the first line of defense would be the disclaimer (assumption of risk). There would be defenses to the defense (all dependent on the peculiar facts of each case) and who wins is why there are courts. In most news stories there are very sketchy facts so I don't like doing more than talking about the area of law in anything more than a general way. Hypotheticals and news articles are a trap.

And as Colin said, different jurisdictions may have different rules.
 
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Bunkermagnet

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But you wouldn’t be sueing the event or tour, but the individual who had been so negligent. I doubt very much every player has disclaimers on them being watched, but more likely has a third party insurance policy to cover any unforeseen events.
They give the huge present of a ball or glove to mitigate their actions as they cannot freeely admit they’re wrong and to claim off my insurance.
 

atticusfinch

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clubchamp98

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Wouldn’t it be good for a case like this to go the full distance in court to set a precedent.
Most have been settled out of court as the money is to tempting.

If I was hit by a ball fair enough , but I don’t expect pro golfers to behave like this and think he and others need teaching a lesson.
A glove or ball won’t cut it anymore.

there called Professionals they need to behave like it.
If I did that in my job I would be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct.

You Cant do that when large crowds of people are about.
 

backwoodsman

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Disciplinary action is needed - as it is an example of very poor etiquette.

But legal action ? I doubt there's a claim to be had on negligence grounds? Negligence usually revolves around doing something you shouldn't, or not doing something you should. But there has to be an element of foreseeability regarding the consequence. After all, I've slammed a club a time or two in the past - I've never seen the head come off. And i expect most folk have seen someone else slam a club. How many times has the head come off? And even if tbe club did break, what is the likelihood of it bouncing up & striking someones head? I'd suggest there is a definite lack of foreseeability about the incident - which severely reduces, or even negates, a claim of negligence. Now if he'd thrown his club at, or into, the crowd, then it would be very foreseeable that someone might get hurt .

I don't condone his action - but one has to recognise that there is no direct correlation between being a git and being negligent. And being a git is not necessarily something the law can address.
 

Bunkermagnet

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Disciplinary action is needed - as it is an example of very poor etiquette.

But legal action ? I doubt there's a claim to be had on negligence grounds? Negligence usually revolves around doing something you shouldn't, or not doing something you should. But there has to be an element of foreseeability regarding the consequence. After all, I've slammed a club a time or two in the past - I've never seen the head come off. And i expect most folk have seen someone else slam a club. How many times has the head come off? And even if tbe club did break, what is the likelihood of it bouncing up & striking someones head? I'd suggest there is a definite lack of foreseeability about the incident - which severely reduces, or even negates, a claim of negligence. Now if he'd thrown his club at, or into, the crowd, then it would be very foreseeable that someone might get hurt .

I don't condone his action - but one has to recognise that there is no direct correlation between being a git and being negligent. And being a git is not necessarily something the law can address.
Didn’t the injured spectator need 6 stitches? You can bet that would create a scar which who knows how it will affect their appearance or mindset.
If people can claim over a misplaced cable on the ground in the street or other trivial matters, the injured party should be able to claim of the reckless golfer.

Im not saying I like the compensation and legal culture, but in this case something needs to be done away from the golf authorities to make professional golfers realise they have a duty of care to those paying to watch them.
 

atticusfinch

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If people can claim over a misplaced cable on the ground in the street or other trivial matters, the injured party should be able to claim of the reckless golfer.

The difference between your examples is the assumption of the risk. In a normal situation you cannot foresee or expect there will be cables in the street. But there are known potential dangers in a golf tournament and to watch it in person you assume the risk of injury. But as discussed, a golfer slamming his club may not be among those risks. It is reasonable to expect players will control anger and not do that.
 

backwoodsman

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Didn’t the injured spectator need 6 stitches? You can bet that would create a scar which who knows how it will affect their appearance or mindset.
If people can claim over a misplaced cable on the ground in the street or other trivial matters, the injured party should be able to claim of the reckless golfer.

Im not saying I like the compensation and legal culture, but in this case something needs to be done away from the golf authorities to make professional golfers realise they have a duty of care to those paying to watch them.

Its not the severity of injury that matters. It is the foreseeability of it happening in the first place.

Leave a cable lying around in a place where lots of people walk, then its fairly foreseeable that someone could trip over it. Therefore you need to take reasonable steps to prevent people doing so, else you could be at fault

On the other hand a spectator at a tournament could be, say, walking round with an umbrella, pointy side up, and another person trips and impales himself on said pointy bit - and dies. Thats not likely to be negligence, even though the umbrella was being held the "wrong" way round. Because there is negligible foreseeability of the likelihood of someone being impaled on it.

The severity of injury is not a factor in determining "fault" - it only determines the level of compensation if "fault" is established.
 

atticusfinch

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Yes. Put another way: foreseeability is about who could be injured by my action? You have a duty to take precautions to prevent that injury to that potential victim(s). Famous case on that issue: Palsgraf v. L.I. Railway (No duty to whole world, only those foreseeably injured by negligent conduct.)
 

Bunkermagnet

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The difference between your examples is the assumption of the risk. In a normal situation you cannot foresee or expect there will be cables in the street. But there are known potential dangers in a golf tournament and to watch it in person you assume the risk of injury. But as discussed, a golfer slamming his club may not be among those risks. It is reasonable to expect players will control anger and not do that.
But if there were clubs expected to be breaking off and flying towards spectators there would have to be catch fencing to protect the spectators, and not just a rope to keep everyone back.
You go to a golf event and expect golf balls to be flying around, and hopefully all on fairways. What you don’t expect is to be hit by a detached club head after a fit of petulance from a professional.
At some point in time, events like this need to be fully addressed in court to make professional golfers realise they do have a duty of care and example to set to those watching.
 

clubchamp98

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The law is an ass!
this is a clear case of childish behaviour hurting someone.
It wouldn’t be tolerated anywhere else except in sport.

If you went to a cookery demonstration and the chef started throwing knives around I bet his next one would be empty.

accidents happen but this is just unprofessional.
It needs testing in court. NO settling out of court for big bucks.
 
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