Second vote ? Why not .?

[Junior]

I've no allegiance to any political party, however, it does make me chuckle when people start slagging Teresa May off. Imagine doing this negotiation right now ? She has a more difficult job to do than of any our Prime Ministers in recent times and it is ultimately in a no win situation. What ever is negotiated, people will think we have been screwed over.

As Bluewolf says , no one will 100% know what will happen as a result of all this, so a second vote is pointless.

 

[bluewolf]

I think thats one of the biggest misconceptions of all.....that leavers somehow wanted no trading, no immigration and to be a great big Island full of racists. Whereas it was just about making our own decisions, our own deals and having more control over who comes in.

A mate of mine works in the construction industry and he hires workers for his sites....he has said many a time that he'd rather employ people from Poland/Romania etc as they work harder than the English workers who are far more "entitled".

It's about control.

Whilst I agree with your point, it should be noted that it's just as big a misconception that we don't already have the vast majority of this already.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Whilst I agree with your point, it should be noted that it's just as big a misconception that we don't already have the vast majority of this already.

I dont disagree at all, but for me it doesnt go far enough hence my vote.

 

[bluewolf]

Can I just say, before this thread goes sideways, that this is a great little discussion. No arguing or pig headedness. The way it should be I suppose.

Commence arguing 😂

 

[Hobbit]

A mate of mine works in the construction industry and he hires workers for his sites....he has said many a time that he'd rather employ people from Poland/Romania etc as they work harder than the English workers who are far more "entitled".

It's about control.

I've employed people from all over the world, a couple of hundred, and done 10x that number of interviews. Everything from cleaners up to senior managers. There's good and not so good from every country. I've never come across the "entitled," although I have come across those that are supremely confident they are the best for the job. What I have experienced is those that stereotype individuals based on where they are from actually are part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[woody69]

Really???? I think not. Please tell me what, if anything, we gain from staying in. In all the wind generated by the politicians and all the remoaners afterwards I've still to hear what we gain out of staying in. You do know we can still go on holiday to Europe don't you? In fact half of Europe NEED us to go on holiday there.

Here are a few gains - http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-a...t-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

 

[Hobbit]

Here are a few gains - http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-a...t-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

Obviously can't argue with the material gains achieved, they're facts. However, I would very much argue against some of the projections. For example, the CBI said in their doc that access to the £48tn global opportunities with Japan and the US wouldn't be achievable outside of the EU. I wonder how unachievable that would be if Corporation Tax was halved and the fetters taken off creative subsidies?

Anyone with half a brain could create a doc with loose projections based on the knowns but add a bit of creativity around tax breaks and incentives and all of a sudden those numbers take on a different slant.

As for protecting British jobs... oh please don't make me laugh. The German company I retired from moved production from the UK to a Southern European country based on tax breaks, incentives and labour rates. Being in the EU didn't protect 400 UK jobs, and that was a few years before Brexit was even a twinkle.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Why??????????????????? We had a vote. We had a result. Enact it! What don't you, and all the others who want to change the result, understand? Nothing has changed since the referendum apart from the lies and attempted manipulation of "expert" opinion (yeh. On both sides).

The country was given the opportunity to vote in a referendum. The MAJORITY wanted out - for whatever reason(s). So out we should go.

So you dont believe in democracy then?

Whose showing their bias now?

 

[Liverbirdie]

How would "keep voting until you come up with the result that the 1st vote losers want" be democratic?

When do the losing voters at a General Election get a 2nd vote just because the losers aren't happy with the winning party?

Several million voters didn't bother to vote, you can't know that they were, in the majority, remainers

How do you know that 17m leavers were purely protesting and suggest that they didn't really want to leave?

As you "definitely" know it'll be a different result then you have to be one of the remainers who just can't accept losing

If the EU were to give us a deal that we all wanted to vote on I think a majority might want that, but you just want a vote cos we got the 1st one wrong - no chance 👎

Have you been reading SILH's posts too often and been suckered into to believing his nonsense?

Firstly, a general election happens every 3-5 years on average - so its different, this is possibly for good.

I didnt say that 17m leavers were a protest vote - dont know where you got that one from.

If the vote had gone the other way but packs of lies had been proven to be told by the remainers, would you not want a second vote, or would you just toddle off home with an "ah well"......

No I think for myself and havent read any of the previous threads on Brexit.

Any more guff you want debunking?

 

[Liverbirdie]

As hobbit said in post number 3. But the thing is we are British. Not Scottish. We had a democratic vote and it went the way it went. End of story. To have a second vote sets a very dangerous precedent. Having seen the vote results. I am not alone in thinking that. It seems the minority are the loudest at shouting and moaning.

The main reason is that it was such a close vote, if it was 60/40 it wouldnt be a conversation.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

As for protecting British jobs... oh please don't make me laugh. The German company I retired from moved production from the UK to a Southern European country based on tax breaks, incentives and labour rates. Being in the EU didn't protect 400 UK jobs, and that was a few years before Brexit was even a twinkle.

I could reel off a whole host of factories in the UK in the electronics industry that closed, when the most efficient in the group, and production moved to other parts of the EU due to all of those things mentioned. That line of defence, as you mention, is cobblers.

 

[SocketRocket]

We may be worse off, we may be better off when we leave but this is a side issue, we never voted for either, we voted to leave or stay in the Eu period and as the majority voted to leave then we should leave. No Deal that keeps us in any of the Eu's institutions is acceptable as it contradicts the democratic outcome of the referendum. Detail like the Irish border, air travel, custom checks etc are not unsurmountable issues to fix. No more referendums, let's just get on and make the best of it.

 

[Kellfire]

We may be worse off, we may be better off when we leave but this is a side issue, we never voted for either, we voted to leave or stay in the Eu period and as the majority voted to leave then we should leave. No Deal that keeps us in any of the Eu's institutions is acceptable as it contradicts the democratic outcome of the referendum. Detail like the Irish border, air travel, custom checks etc are not unsurmountable issues to fix. No more referendums, let's just get on and make the best of it.

The government is in no way bound to abide by the outcome of the referendum, let alone accept it blindly if it knows it's to the detriment of the country.

 

[woody69]

Obviously can't argue with the material gains achieved, they're facts. However, I would very much argue against some of the projections. For example, the CBI said in their doc that access to the £48tn global opportunities with Japan and the US wouldn't be achievable outside of the EU. I wonder how unachievable that would be if Corporation Tax was halved and the fetters taken off creative subsidies?

Anyone with half a brain could create a doc with loose projections based on the knowns but add a bit of creativity around tax breaks and incentives and all of a sudden those numbers take on a different slant.

As for protecting British jobs... oh please don't make me laugh. The German company I retired from moved production from the UK to a Southern European country based on tax breaks, incentives and labour rates. Being in the EU didn't protect 400 UK jobs, and that was a few years before Brexit was even a twinkle.

Can you point me to the bit within the link that discusses membership to the EU protects British jobs? I couldn't see it.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

The government is in no way bound to abide by the outcome of the referendum, let alone accept it blindly if it knows it's to the detriment of the country.

A point that Is overlooked far too much

The way the Tory’s are playing it you would think they wnna look so bad that a general is called.. labour come in.. cancel brexit and in doing so ignore “the will of the people” making them unelectable for a long time...

They didn’t count on one thing... Corbyn making himself unelectable !

 

[drdel]

I've led many 'projects' helping companies restructure their European operations. Believe me trying to move stuff from France or Germany is next to impossible. So anyone who thinks the EU creates a level playing field is delusional, France and Germany take the rules they like and ignore the rest.

A second vote will clarify nothing and will embolden the EU into forcing us to adopt the Euro.

 

[bluewolf]

I've led many 'projects' helping companies restructure their European operations. Believe me trying to move stuff from France or Germany is next to impossible. So anyone who thinks the EU creates a level playing field is delusional, France and Germany take the rules they like and ignore the rest.

A second vote will clarify nothing and will embolden the EU into forcing us to adopt the Euro.

🤣 More Project Fear 😉😉

 

[chrisd]

allied to many others leavers who did it as a protest vote, but didnt expect it to actually win. nd thats why leavers dont want it to happen and hide behind a "well its democracy" standpoint - see opening line.

Firstly, a general election happens every 3-5 years on average - so its different, this is possibly for good.

I didnt say that 17m leavers were a protest vote - dont know where you got that one from.

If the vote had gone the other way but packs of lies had been proven to be told by the remainers, would you not want a second vote, or would you just toddle off home with an "ah well"......

No I think for myself and havent read any of the previous threads on Brexit.

Any more guff you want debunking?

Firstly, a general election happens every 3-5 years on average - so its different, this is possibly for good.

I didnt say that 17m leavers were a protest vote - dont know where you got that one from.

If the vote had gone the other way but packs of lies had been proven to be told by the remainers, would you not want a second vote, or would you just toddle off home with an "ah well"......

No I think for myself and havent read any of the previous threads on Brexit.

Any more guff you want debunking?

When we vote at a General Election we know it's for a limited period, when we voted for Brexit we knew it was permanent

No, you didn't say ALL 17m were a protest vote but suggested it was a significant number which isn't provable

No, I wouldn't have wanted a 2nd vote, just like many Remainers who don't because they rely on democracy. Also, lies WERE told by both sides

No, I can happily debunk all guff myself thanks

 

[Deleted member 15344]

When we vote at a General Election we know it's for a limited period, when we voted for Brexit we knew it was permanent

No, you didn't say ALL 17m were a protest vote but suggested it was a significant number which isn't provable

No, I wouldn't have wanted a 2nd vote, just like many Remainers who don't because they rely on democracy. Also, lies WERE told by both sides

No, I can happily debunk all guff myself thanks

Sorry Chris but surely that can’t be true as surely in a democracy we can have a vote to rejoin etc and also wasn’t the initial vote actually more of a “guideline” etc etc as opposed to be “legally binding “

Lots of presumptions possibly

Remember democracy does mean things can be discussed and things can be voted on again and things can change etc

If the government decided to follow a democratic process and have another vote to see if people still want to leave when they know what deal or no deal we will get or not get then that still being part of democracy

 

[Tashyboy]

The vast majority of the population (on both sides) is ignorant yes. You don't have to take it so personally.

I would suggest that some people
( like me ) have actually seen the effects of the EU and have been affected by the EU and would be more ignorant to Stay in the EU than say shove your club. Some might be ignorant and may of been persuaded by lies to vote Brexit. In the same token some people have not been affected by the EU and were taken in by the Remain lies and voted to stay. Come what may none of that warrants a second vote.