Screw club manufacturers!

[Garush34]

All it takes is for someone to ask

If they have failed to realise that lofts on different manufacturers are different then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be bothered about it

In this day and age I'm amazed anyone spends a good deal of money without doing some basic research of what you are buying

Have to agree with Phil here. If your investing in new clubs surely you do a bit of research about them. Which clearly the OP has done after trying the clubs otherwise they wouldn't know about the differences in loft. But to say they are conning or duping customers isn't entirely correct considering the information is all there online for people to see if they want. I thought it be common sense to check something like that out.

At the end of the day I couldn't be bothered if my 7 iron is 32 or 34 degrees, as long as it does the job of striking the ball with my help that's fine. I'll likely have to adjust to different distances anyway due to the technology or shaft differences compared to my current set. So what does it matter if the loft is different as well.

 

[jpjeffery]

I think the poster of the thread should view his purchase as being more consistent and accurate, rather than being to concerned about the distance

You and others have assumed, not unreasonably from what I wrote, that I'm primarily concerned about gaining distance on my shots. I'm actually not, but obviously I noticed that the Benross 7 iron was hitting the ball further with a similar flight. That obviously brightened my day - until I spotted the difference in length and loft, at which point I felt deceived.

So, just to complete the picture, my intention is to achieve better distance and directional consistency on mis-hits. My suspicion (and I do recognise that my technique is also involved here!) is that poor shots with my clubs are resulting in more directional and distance dispersion than a better set of clubs might. If I gain more distance as well, I'll be happy, but that's not the objective.

 

[jpjeffery]

Hogan have the answer http://www.benhogangolf.com/equipment This is the way manufacturers should go, then the only variable is the length of each club.

The guy (Terry Koehler) who runs Ben Hogan Golf is also the guy who wrote the article on the oobgolf.com site that I posted earlier.


This whole issue is definitely his bugbear!

 

[bluewolf]

damn been playing 25 years and never thought of that lol

Im not blaming the lofts just explaining why for me I carry more wedges, Ive just ensured I have the lofts that best suit me and my game (and address my short comings the best they can)

Youve adapted your bag to best suit your game. I agree with your philosophy. It's a free market and you've made your choice and are happy with it.

I'm just getting a bit bored with people thinking that loft is the only variable in the mix. It's not. It's a choice. Like any other purchase in life. I don't buy a house purely because it has 3 bedrooms. I don't buy a car based purely on engine size. I don't buy a shirt based purely on size. Etc, etc, etc.

 

[fundy]

Youve adapted your bag to best suit your game. I agree with your philosophy. It's a free market and you've made your choice and are happy with it.

I'm just getting a bit bored with people thinking that loft is the only variable in the mix. It's not. It's a choice. Like any other purchase in life. I don't buy a house purely because it has 3 bedrooms. I don't buy a car based purely on engine size. I don't buy a shirt based purely on size. Etc, etc, etc.

Can see both sides tbh, does a get frustrating when you buy an off the shelf set and the shortest club carries 130+ or more for a full swing then people tell you that you shouldnt need more than 2 wedges. As you say Im more than happy with my set up, its been built for my shonky ability with less than a full swing lol

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Spot on. I think it also depends on what is meant by "basic" research (cf. Liverpoolphil). I researched price, suitability for a high-handicapper, shaft type (graphite is my preference), customer reviews, make (I targeted Benross because of their target being club golfers rather than everyone including pros - if that's incorrect, please someone tell me!), and to a certain extent customer reviews. Is that basic research, or less than basic research?

I didn't research on lofts because, as you rightly said in other post, I had no reason to believe that all 7 iron lofts aren't created equal.

As I mentioned earlier, I feel like my A-B comparison with my 7 iron was something of a waste of time, and that I'll now have to go back and test it again but against my 6 iron in order to see what, if any, improvement (not just on distance) these new clubs might offer.

Or perhaps the whole 'buying a new set of clubs' idea is actually pointless! Maybe my clubs are fine and a new set won't offer anything to me beyond being shinier.

So you took the time to research everything but the lofts - the lofts will be mentioned in club reviews by users and magazines etc

 

[Maninblack4612]

I thought that the increase in loft was necessary to counteract the affect of perimeter weighting, a necessity rather than an attempt to dupe consumers.

Precisely. If your longest iron is, say, 20° loft & it's called a 4 iron & the pitching wedge is 46° then all the other lofts have to be gapped to fill the space from 5 to 9. If the 4 iron was properly called a 2 iron nobody would buy the set because they'd say "someone of my standard can't hit a 2 iron" when, because of perimeter weighting / low C of G, the actually can.

And whee is Delc anyway?

 

[3565]

I can understand the OP's concern. My 7i is standard length with 34* loft, I wanted to try a Nippon 105 Shaft in the latest Ping i whatever head 7i and took to the practise ground to compare. The shaft was lighter in weight then mine and so I gained 6mph club head speed and it was going a lot further then my 7i which was only 6g heavier in shaft. Besides the Club speed which will gain me extra yardage, Something wasn't feeling right as it was going a lot further so I checked the loft of the Ping and it was 4* stronger at 30*............ So that equates to my 6i loft which is half inch longer in shaft then the Ping 7i....... So in reality how can you compare as you need like for like, same loft and length.

 

[Tiger]

A 7 iron is a 7 iron because of the weight of the head. That's it. It has nothing to do with loft. That could be anything. It's not specified, and it doesn't need to be, that is left up to the manufacturer.

Has anyone actually read murph's post? The number is determined by head weight. The loft question is also irrelevant. As someone else pointed out they have to crank the lofts to counteract the fact they are easier to launch. Otherwise we'd all be whacking OUR PW up our nostrils.

The crux of the issue is WHY are you changing clubs? I just bought some new irons and wedges. Why? Because I wasn't sure my current set were the right fit for me. Turns out I was right. They were too upright, too long and the shafts were too stiff.

What did I want from my new clubs? Consistent yardage gaps, improved feedback and ideally no loss of distance. To achieve that my lofts 5 - LW now go 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58. I had the 5 iron strengthened by one degree as part of the fitting process and I'm looking to put in an 18 & 21 hybrid.

I don't care what number is on the sole of the club. I only care about what club corresponds to what distance. So my question to the OP is why were you looking at buying clubs?
- more distance?
- more forgiveness?
- money burning a hole in your pocket?

 

[jpjeffery]

Has anyone actually read murph's post? The number is determined by head weight. The loft question is also irrelevant. As someone else pointed out they have to crank the lofts to counteract the fact they are easier to launch. Otherwise we'd all be whacking OUR PW up our nostrils.

The crux of the issue is WHY are you changing clubs? I just bought some new irons and wedges. Why? Because I wasn't sure my current set were the right fit for me. Turns out I was right. They were too upright, too long and the shafts were too stiff.

What did I want from my new clubs? Consistent yardage gaps, improved feedback and ideally no loss of distance. To achieve that my lofts 5 - LW now go 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58. I had the 5 iron strengthened by one degree as part of the fitting process and I'm looking to put in an 18 & 21 hybrid.

I don't care what number is on the sole of the club. I only care about what club corresponds to what distance. So my question to the OP is why were you looking at buying clubs?
- more distance?
- more forgiveness?
- money burning a hole in your pocket?

More distance? That would be nice, but it's not the primary objective.
More forgiveness? Definitely. I'd like my mis-hits to result in less dispersion of distance and direction.
Money burning a hole in your pocket? Actually, yes! Not a great deal of it but I did get £100 from my sister-in-law as a birthday present (in 2014!) for the purpose of helping me buy new clubs.

 

[patricks148]

Has anyone actually read murph's post? The number is determined by head weight. The loft question is also irrelevant. As someone else pointed out they have to crank the lofts to counteract the fact they are easier to launch. Otherwise we'd all be whacking OUR PW up our nostrils.

The crux of the issue is WHY are you changing clubs? I just bought some new irons and wedges. Why? Because I wasn't sure my current set were the right fit for me. Turns out I was right. They were too upright, too long and the shafts were too stiff.

What did I want from my new clubs? Consistent yardage gaps, improved feedback and ideally no loss of distance. To achieve that my lofts 5 - LW now go 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58. I had the 5 iron strengthened by one degree as part of the fitting process and I'm looking to put in an 18 & 21 hybrid.

I don't care what number is on the sole of the club. I only care about what club corresponds to what distance. So my question to the OP is why were you looking at buying clubs?
- more distance?
- more forgiveness?
- money burning a hole in your pocket?

what if you hoped for more distance, you hit the 7 iron further than your current 6 iron... only to find once you bought the clubs that the reason was the new 7 iron was stronger than your old 6 iron?

 

[BTatHome]

Feels a bit like Groundhog Day .... just wait until delc sees this thread

 

[Tiger]

what if you hoped for more distance, you hit the 7 iron further than your current 6 iron... only to find once you bought the clubs that the reason was the new 7 iron was stronger than your old 6 iron?

But what if the loft is irrelevant. What if hitting the new 7 iron is as easy to hit as your current 7 iron and easier than your current 6 iron? What if you can hit the 5 iron miles better than you could hit the 4 iron from your current set even though they had the same loft? Surely that's a benefit?

The majority of the club's with strong lofts are game improver irons. The aim is to maximise forgiveness. So if I can hit an old money six iron as well as an old money 7 iron the club's have done their job? Haven't they?

At some point in every golfers bag there will come a point when they have to put a partial swing on a shot. If you aren't good at partial shots you try and avoid them by managing your way around the course.

I think it's harsh to criticise manufacturers who are trying to make this crazy difficult game easier for us.

 

[Tiger]

More distance? That would be nice, but it's not the primary objective.
More forgiveness? Definitely. I'd like my mis-hits to result in less dispersion of distance and direction.
Money burning a hole in your pocket? Actually, yes! Not a great deal of it but I did get £100 from my sister-in-law as a birthday present (in 2014!) for the purpose of helping me buy new clubs.

So ignoring the loft issue did the club's you tried give you better dispersion and more forgiveness? The 6/7 iron debate in that context is a red herring...

 

[jpjeffery]

So you took the time to research everything but the lofts...

Correct, I researched the things I knew were variables, not the thing I didn't know might be a variable.

 

[patricks148]

But what if the loft is irrelevant. What if hitting the new 7 iron is as easy to hit as your current 7 iron and easier than your current 6 iron? What if you can hit the 5 iron miles better than you could hit the 4 iron from your current set even though they had the same loft? Surely that's a benefit?

The majority of the club's with strong lofts are game improver irons. The aim is to maximise forgiveness. So if I can hit an old money six iron as well as an old money 7 iron the club's have done their job? Haven't they?

At some point in every golfers bag there will come a point when they have to put a partial swing on a shot. If you aren't good at partial shots you try and avoid them by managing your way around the course.

I think it's harsh to criticise manufacturers who are trying to make this crazy difficult game easier for us.

but what if its not? you will be thinking you have gained some distance, which is exactly what happened to the guy i know.

He doesn't read golf mags or pay any attention to golf gear as such, his woods are 15 years old at least, we have a lot of the older members like this some couldn't even tell you what make their clubs are

 

[jpjeffery]

So ignoring the loft issue did the club's you tried give you better dispersion and more forgiveness? The 6/7 iron debate in that context is a red herring...

I think so but I couldn't be absolutely sure. I was given 40 balls, and I had my club plus two others to try, so roughly 13 balls per club. It seems quite a small sample to work with (had I only the one club to try it would have been 20 balls, I was given two 20-ball tickets because I had two clubs to try).

 

[jpjeffery]

Feels a bit like Groundhog Day .... just wait until delc sees this thread

Hmm, this is the second time someone has said this about Delc. Who is this Delc?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I can fully sympathise with the OP, I know plenty of chap's who would and do think the numbering on the sole is relative make to make.

 

[garyinderry]

When did the penny finally drop?

It's the worst kept secret in golf as there is 1000s of articles and lofts are printed in every review.