Score Differential in Bogey Comp

[Region3]

Our comp next week is a bogey competition. Can anyone explain how score differentials are calculated?

If I’m playing a hole I don’t get a shot on and miss a par putt, I could still get a point in stableford but for the purposes of the bogey competition I can pick up.
Would those 2 options make any difference at all to my score differential when the round is complete?

I can’t get my head around this. Either the whole field has to be told to putt out as if it were a stableford comp, or the system makes no differentiation between a bogey and a double for handicap records.

 

[BillyTheFish777]

You need to keep putting until you reach net double bogey, as per a stableford.

 

[rosecott]

Our comp next week is a bogey competition. Can anyone explain how score differentials are calculated?

If I’m playing a hole I don’t get a shot on and miss a par putt, I could still get a point in stableford but for the purposes of the bogey competition I can pick up.
Would those 2 options make any difference at all to my score differential when the round is complete?

I can’t get my head around this. Either the whole field has to be told to putt out as if it were a stableford comp, or the system makes no differentiation between a bogey and a double for handicap records.

Gary, I don't think it's an issue at your handicap level. The general advice:

Stableford and Bogey – be aware of the point where you can no longer score a Stableford point or achieve a “half” in a Bogey. You should also be aware that your Playing Handicap may be 1 or even 2 shots lower than your Course Handicap so be careful not to pick up too early as WHS handicap calculations are based on Course Handicaps.

 

[Backsticks]

We have stopped playing them in the last few years. I think there are none scheduled for this season. I am told they used to be much more prevalent in the past. It just doesnt work with net double bogey for handicap. Its like playing matchplay and singles simultaneously - the rule forbid it. But its effectively what you do now in bogey.

 

[Billysboots]

We’ve been having this argument for years. We are told by our starter to pick up once we’ve lost the hole in a bogey event, so no doubles on a shot hole even though they score you a stableford point. We’d argued that a bogey competition run in that way could not be run for handicap purposes. The committee ignored the naysayers.

It came to a head a year or so ago when one of our better members received an upwards handicap adjustment and he argued it was incorrect. Having been instructed to pick up on holes where he would have scored stableford points, he pulled no punches in telling the committee his return did not reflect what he would have scored without the starter’s intervention.

We no longer run bogey comps.

 

[rosecott]

We have stopped playing them in the last few years. I think there are none scheduled for this season. I am told they used to be much more prevalent in the past. It just doesnt work with net double bogey for handicap. Its like playing matchplay and singles simultaneously - the rule forbid it. But its effectively what you do now in bogey.

The rules do not forbid it. If your committee has sanctioned the combining of strokeplay and matchplay, then you must play by strokeplay rules.

 

[Crow]

I think the case was that your holes up or down related to your score to par, three up, three under etc.

But now I believe that for handicap you just play as though it was stroke play, so even having lost a hole you still try to score a net bogey.

Ruined the mindset that used to apply to bogey comps as you're now distracted by your stroke play score.

 

[Region3]

Thank you all for your replies. It seems like madness to me.

There is zero chance (especially now we don’t have a starter) of making all players aware of this, so there will potentially be people posting scores way worse than they could have been.

We only have 1 of these comps each year. I mentioned it to our handicap sec last year but because it was only a few days before the comp the action taken was to make it nq.
I think the same is likely this year.

 

[Backsticks]

The rules do not forbid it. If your committee has sanctioned the combining of strokeplay and matchplay, then you must play by strokeplay rules.

Its not really the rules that are the problem. Its how you play the game. Tricky putt for a half ? Go for it with nothing to lose in the bogey competition ? Or play it according to the hc system to try to ensure your best score - even if that means reducing your chance of the half in the competition ?

 

[Backsticks]

Thank you all for your replies. It seems like madness to me.

There is zero chance (especially now we don’t have a starter) of making all players aware of this, so there will potentially be people posting scores way worse than they could have been.

We only have 1 of these comps each year. I mentioned it to our handicap sec last year but because it was only a few days before the comp the action taken was to make it nq.
I think the same is likely this year.

Thats what we found. The less frequently they were played the greater the confusion. Hence now just dropped.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We’ve been having this argument for years. We are told by our starter to pick up once we’ve lost the hole in a bogey event, so no doubles on a shot hole even though they score you a stableford point. We’d argued that a bogey competition run in that way could not be run for handicap purposes. The committee ignored the naysayers.

It came to a head a year or so ago when one of our better members received an upwards handicap adjustment and he argued it was incorrect. Having been instructed to pick up on holes where he would have scored stableford points, he pulled no punches in telling the committee his return did not reflect what he would have scored without the starter’s intervention.

We no longer run bogey comps.

Bogey comps - used to be nice and simple

if you are all square then it’s 36 points equivalent
1 better then 37 points

1 down then 35 points

Once you have lost the hole you picked up

 

[Billysboots]

…..there will potentially be people posting scores way worse than they could have been.

And therein lies the problem if bogey comps are run as qualifiers.

I did as instructed the last time I played a bogey comp, meaning every hole I picked up was recorded as a net double bogey on EG even though many would have been bogeys had I putted out. My qualifying score was probably half a dozen shots or more worse than the reality.

 

[SteveW86]

We played a bogey comp today, we just played it as if it was a stableford.

 

[Region3]

Bogey comps - used to be nice and simple

if you are all square then it’s 36 points equivalent
1 better then 37 points

1 down then 35 points

Once you have lost the hole you picked up

Simple yes, but “fair“ regarding handicap scores - not really. No evidence to back this up but I’d imagine there would be many more nett doubles (but counted as nett bogeys) than nett eagles (counted as nett birdies) if everything was putted out as if it were stableford.

I don’t think there’s a good answer really.

Thinking about it more, does this format favour higher handicappers more since their handicap record will include more nett doubles than a lower handicap player?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Simple yes, but “fair“ regarding handicap scores - not really. No evidence to back this up but I’d imagine there would be many more nett doubles (but counted as nett bogeys) than nett eagles (counted as nett birdies) if everything was putted out as if it were stableford.

I don’t think there’s a good answer really.

Thinking about it more, does this format favour higher handicappers more since their handicap record will include more nett doubles than a lower handicap player?

Yes agree - it certainly wasn’t fair

Think a few times I went round under gross but was a waste of time as birdie two holes I had shots on

 

[rosecott]

Thank you all for your replies. It seems like madness to me.

There is zero chance (especially now we don’t have a starter) of making all players aware of this, so there will potentially be people posting scores way worse than they could have been.

We only have 1 of these comps each year. I mentioned it to our handicap sec last year but because it was only a few days before the comp the action taken was to make it nq.
I think the same is likely this year.

I'm pretty sure the system does not allow a club to declare a comp NQ if everything is in place for it to be a qualifier.

Between weekend and seniors comps, we probably play at least 12 Bogey comps a year. We don't have any issues from players - they are just used to them and get on with the game.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Bogey comps - used to be nice and simple

if you are all square then it’s 36 points equivalent
1 better then 37 points

1 down then 35 points

Once you have lost the hole you picked up

In the old system it was that simple in theory but not in practice.
You could finish 2 down and miss buffer.
But if you had birdied two shot holes and putted out for 1 point on holes you lost rather than pick up, the software would recognise your score as level and no +0.1 to handicap would occur.
This meant I would have to answer the question from playing partners early in the round, "Why are you putting out, you've already lost the hole?"
"I might birdie a shot hole later on" was never enough. It always took a lot more explanation.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Bogey comps shouldn't be qualifiers, period.

The mindset is completely different, and in some scenarios, you won't be playing for the best score you can make. eg. Playing a par 5, and have 2 putts for the win. You aren't going to try and make the first putt to make the best score possible...you're going to lag it up to guarantee the win.

Just make them non-qualifying and be done with it.

 

[rosecott]

Yes agree - it certainly wasn’t fair

Think a few times I went round under gross but was a waste of time as birdied two holes I had shots on

But you were, of course, left basking in a glow of self-righteous satisfaction that you had "attempted to make the best score possible at each hole" as directed by the Rules of Handicapping.

 

[cliveb]

In the old system it was that simple in theory but not in practice.
You could finish 2 down and miss buffer.
But if you had birdied two shot holes and putted out for 1 point on holes you lost rather than pick up, the software would recognise your score as level and no +0.1 to handicap would occur.
This meant I would have to answer the question from playing partners early in the round, "Why are you putting out, you've already lost the hole?"
"I might birdie a shot hole later on" was never enough. It always took a lot more explanation.

I don't have it to hand, but am pretty sure that under the old pre-WHS system, there was a table in the CONGU manual that very clearly set out exactly what the bogey score meant in terms of handicapping, and I don't recall anything about taking into consideration net eagles.