LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

You appear to be making up statement I am not making now. I have not claimed change is bad.

A sentence with a question mark at the end isn’t a statement, it’s a question. Thanks for answering it. ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

And why is it you think that they don’t care ?

Maybe it’s all the blood money they are getting - but then a number of players have clearly shown they don’t care where it’s from as long as they get rich .


You do know that other team events have been tried ?

6’s
Vivendi
Seve Trophy
World Cup

guess how many are still going ?

The likes of the Ryder Cup and Solhiem generate interest because of the history and the two teams involved - The Walker Cup is a pinnacle of Am golf

Now we’re on the final day of Portland Phil, have your views altered at all on the prospective future of the series, or, do still feel it will fail and fail quickly?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Now we’re on the final day of Portland Phil, have your views altered at all on the prospective future of the series, or, do still feel it will fail and fail quickly?

why would my views of changed ?

It’s just a rich exhibition and one funded by blood money in the aid of sport washing

I find the attitude of the players crass but then it’s no surprise with the players they have managed to entice - none of them have gone there to grow the game or get new people into the sport - it’s a pure money grab


And yes I do think ultimately it will fizzle away

Looks like the Aussies are going to support the ET and PGA Tour

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/golf/w...44NGLCw1LsqjuMIte3rTZAHnCON6pIA0Cyfh1SCKCyaIQ

looking very unlikely that ranking points will be awarded - and think it’s laughable that you believe it will be franchise teams and that people will actually buy the teams

 

[Mel Smooth]

why would my views of changed ?

It’s just a rich exhibition and one funded by blood money in the aid of sport washing

I find the attitude of the players crass but then it’s no surprise with the players they have managed to entice - none of them have gone there to grow the game or get new people into the sport - it’s a pure money grab


And yes I do think ultimately it will fizzle away

Looks like the Aussies are going to support the ET and PGA Tour

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/golf/w...44NGLCw1LsqjuMIte3rTZAHnCON6pIA0Cyfh1SCKCyaIQ

looking very unlikely that ranking points will be awarded - and think it’s laughable that you believe it will be franchise teams and that people will actually buy the teams

The plan has always been to franchise the teams, why would that be laughable?
The teams are generating a value from day 1 of Centurion, hence the importance of team members, team drafts, and team results. There are reports today that they will have a secure 48 player field next year, 14 events, and the introduction of team franchises. I don’t just make stuff up mate, the info is all out there.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The plan has always been to franchise the teams, why would that be laughable?
The teams are generating a value from day 1 of Centurion, hence the importance of team members, team drafts, and team results. There are reports today that they will have a secure 48 player field next year, 14 events, and the introduction of team franchises. I don’t just make stuff up mate, the info is all out there.

how long do you think it will be before they stop having to pay players to play in the events ? Any golf name that is playing is only doing so because of guarantee money in their pocket ? Are Saudi Arabia just going to keep paying these players ?

Who do you expect will buy these fantasy franchise teams ? And do you think these people will continue to just pay players to turn up ?

And as for the players - when they get paid to turn up what is then their motivation? They have already got their money

And without ranking points what players do you think they will attract in the future when they don’t have access to get into the majors ?

There is no Telly deal , very limited if any sponsership - the whole thing is stood up by the state of Saudi Arabia - unless they get the cream of the crop when will they just stop

 

[IanM]

It's still largely folk who are on the back 9 of their careers and folk noone knows.

We don't need this sideshow

 

[Mel Smooth]

how long do you think it will be before they stop having to pay players to play in the events ? Any golf name that is playing is only doing so because of guarantee money in their pocket ? Are Saudi Arabia just going to keep paying these players ?

Who do you expect will buy these fantasy franchise teams ? And do you think these people will continue to just pay players to turn up ?

And as for the players - when they get paid to turn up what is then their motivation? They have already got their money

And without ranking points what players do you think they will attract in the future when they don’t have access to get into the majors ?

There is no Telly deal , very limited if any sponsership - the whole thing is stood up by the state of Saudi Arabia - unless they get the cream of the crop when will they just stop

If you read this, it will possibly answer most of your questions.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...lace-among-worlds-most-valuable-sports-teams/

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you read this, it will possibly answer most of your questions.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...lace-among-worlds-most-valuable-sports-teams/

?‍ That’s the IPL ? A competition within a team sport and teams owned by Indian Businessmen and women - It’s not relevant

How does it answer anything I asked

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Very interesting to hear that 40% of the PGA Tours sponsors heavily rely on business with or are invested in by Saudi Arabia.

Based on the strong stance of the PGA Tour against Liv being mainly the source of the money do we think Jay Monaghan will now say to these sponsors
"Sorry we can't accept your sponsorship money any more"
I very much doubt it, very much the opposite as he will now be asking them for more money to increase the purses.

So Liv is sponsored directly by and the PGA Tour is sponsored partly indirectly by Saudi Arabia.

Where is the line drawn?
I've no idea ?

If the PGA Tours main objection to the liv tour is the source of the money then I can't see how they can accept money in directly from the same source?

Otherwise isnt there is a slight stench of hypocrisy.??

 

[D-S]

Surely the idea of teams is purely a construct for the Sports Betting industry, which is really now taking off in the USA. This just providers gamblers with a different option and can be marketed as such.
Trying to justify it via franchise sports arguments or gainsay it is as not wanted by golf fans is a waste of time (and posts).

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Very interesting to hear that 40% of the PGA Tours sponsors heavily rely on business with or are invested in by Saudi Arabia.

Based on the strong stance of the PGA Tour against Liv being mainly the source of the money do we think Jay Monaghan will now say to these sponsors
"Sorry we can't accept your sponsorship money any more"
I very much doubt it, very much the opposite as he will now be asking them for more money to increase the purses.

So Liv is sponsored directly by and the PGA Tour is sponsored partly indirectly by Saudi Arabia.

Where is the line drawn?
I've no idea ?

If the PGA Tours main objection to the liv tour is the source of the money then I can't see how they can accept money in directly from the same source?

Otherwise isnt there is a slight stench of hypocrisy.??

sorry can you expand on the highlighted bit ?

It’s a statement but it need substance surely?

Which companies are we talking about here ? And how are the PGA Tour getting money from PIF

Do PIF sponsor any PGA event ?

I know they sponsored a ET event until this year when it became an Asian Tour event but I didn’t know they sponsored any event on the PGA tour ?

 

[Backsticks]

If the PGA Tours main objection to the liv tour is the source of the money then I can't see how they can accept money in directly from the same source?

Otherwise isnt there is a slight stench of hypocrisy.??

There isnt. Because the PGA Tour's main objection is not the source of the money. Its that LIV is competition for its existence.

 

[Barking_Mad]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535728591144640514

This was after the first tournament in London.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

sorry can you expand on the highlighted bit ?

It’s a statement but it need substance surely?

Which companies are we talking about here ? And how are the PGA Tour getting money from PIF

Do PIF sponsor any PGA event ?

I know they sponsored a ET event until this year when it became an Asian Tour event but I didn’t know they sponsored any event on the PGA tour ?

Don't shoot the messenger
Copy & Pasted

"Look, if they want to look at it in prism, then why does the PGA Tour have 23 sponsors within the PGA Tour doing 40-plus billion dollars worth of business with Saudi Arabia?
"Why is it OK for the sponsors? Why is it OK that there's a Saudi sponsor, Aramco, the largest sponsor of women's golf in the world? Why is it OK for them? Why is it not OK for these players?
"Will (PGA Tour commissioner) Jay Monahan go to each and every one of those CEOs of the 23 companies that are doing business with or taking investment from Saudi Arabia and suspend them and ban them? The hypocrisy in all this, it's so loud. It's deafening."
"The European PGA Tour (has) a golf tournament, the Saudi International, that's still in existence since 2019, "

 

[Barking_Mad]

Don't shoot the messenger
Copy & Pasted

"Look, if they want to look at it in prism, then why does the PGA Tour have 23 sponsors within the PGA Tour doing 40-plus billion dollars worth of business with Saudi Arabia?
"Why is it OK for the sponsors? Why is it OK that there's a Saudi sponsor, Aramco, the largest sponsor of women's golf in the world? Why is it OK for them? Why is it not OK for these players?
"Will (PGA Tour commissioner) Jay Monahan go to each and every one of those CEOs of the 23 companies that are doing business with or taking investment from Saudi Arabia and suspend them and ban them? The hypocrisy in all this, it's so loud. It's deafening."
"The European PGA Tour (has) a golf tournament, the Saudi International, that's still in existence since 2019, "

So what we need is more of it, on steroids. That will make things OK.

 

[Ethan]

So Liv is sponsored directly by and the PGA Tour is sponsored partly indirectly by Saudi Arabia.

Where is the line drawn?
I've no idea ?

I think you drew the line yourself. Taking money directly from a Saudi state image-laundering fund should be ethically untouchable.

There is a lot of whatabouttery around, with people attacking companies like Pfizer Hotels for operating in Saudi. I don't see why Saudi people shouldn't get the latest medicines, personally. That is very different and needs a lot more careful unpacking. As it stands, I am unaware if the PGA Tour gets money directly or indirectly from Saudi, and if so whether any of that is from the state or private companies there. it is ridiculous to suggest that the PGA Tour should not accept sponsorship from, for example, Marriott just because Marriott has hotels in Saudi.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Don't shoot the messenger
Copy & Pasted

"Look, if they want to look at it in prism, then why does the PGA Tour have 23 sponsors within the PGA Tour doing 40-plus billion dollars worth of business with Saudi Arabia?
"Why is it OK for the sponsors? Why is it OK that there's a Saudi sponsor, Aramco, the largest sponsor of women's golf in the world? Why is it OK for them? Why is it not OK for these players?
"Will (PGA Tour commissioner) Jay Monahan go to each and every one of those CEOs of the 23 companies that are doing business with or taking investment from Saudi Arabia and suspend them and ban them? The hypocrisy in all this, it's so loud. It's deafening."
"The European PGA Tour (has) a golf tournament, the Saudi International, that's still in existence since 2019, "

im not sure whose words they are ?‍

But again it doesn’t show that the PIF sponsor any event within the PGA Tour

Who a company does business with will always find some link somewhere to the Middle East or China or Russia etc but it’s straw clutching whataboutary-

The LiV is full financed by PIF , the PGA tour has multiple sponsors - mainly US companies and none financed by PIF

And the Saudi International is now part of the Asian Tour

But I also don’t recall many saying it’s all ok for the ET - I know with have had many debates over players being paid to play in those events

And I don’t recall many saying it’s ok for Aramco Sponsoring the Ladies - in fact when there was a Ladies event in Saudi many called them hyprocrites for taking the money

 

[evemccc]

I think you drew the line yourself. Taking money directly from a Saudi state image-laundering fund should be ethically untouchable.

There is a lot of whatabouttery around, with people attacking companies like Pfizer Hotels for operating in Saudi. I don't see why Saudi people shouldn't get the latest medicines, personally. That is very different and needs a lot more careful unpacking. As it stands, I am unaware if the PGA Tour gets money directly or indirectly from Saudi, and if so whether any of that is from the state or private companies there. it is ridiculous to suggest that the PGA Tour should not accept sponsorship from, for example, Marriott just because Marriott has hotels in Saudi.

The word and phrase ‘whataboutery’ has been bandied around a lot on this thread….Another word is ‘context’ —-and examples cited in this thread about companies related to the PGA Tour, about the IOC having the Olympics in Beijing, about Russia getting the World Cup, about F1, about the ET Saudi event etc etc are to contextualise what is - and has been - happening

Providing context and nuance to relatively complicated societal developments is needed - simply claiming ‘whataboutery’ is knee-jerk twitter-esq speak
?

 

[pokerjoke]

Don't shoot the messenger
Copy & Pasted

"Look, if they want to look at it in prism, then why does the PGA Tour have 23 sponsors within the PGA Tour doing 40-plus billion dollars worth of business with Saudi Arabia?
"Why is it OK for the sponsors? Why is it OK that there's a Saudi sponsor, Aramco, the largest sponsor of women's golf in the world? Why is it OK for them? Why is it not OK for these players?
"Will (PGA Tour commissioner) Jay Monahan go to each and every one of those CEOs of the 23 companies that are doing business with or taking investment from Saudi Arabia and suspend them and ban them? The hypocrisy in all this, it's so loud. It's deafening."
"The European PGA Tour (has) a golf tournament, the Saudi International, that's still in existence since 2019, "

People will always look the other way if it doesn’t suit their argument,it’s a trait on here on many threads.
Wether the money is direct or indirect into any tour from countries that are not great on human rights it’s all tainted money.
Making an argument slating one way when excepting another is totally hypocritical,but once again the hypocrites on here won’t worry about that.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

knee-jerk twitter-esq speak
?

Now that’s a good phrase, I think it might get pinched

Have you had it copyrighted? ?