Running an Auction - any views

[bladeplayer]

I love it, whenever something like this occurs, the people who break the rules, try to make the people who don't, feel like they are the ones in the wrong.

As regarding rules tho, if me and you go out for a friendly knock about ,say you have a new driver , i give it a whack on say the 5th tee & give it back to you & you use it , what happens ? i ask you what you played to a par 3 & you tell me ? what happens ? im sure i break loads of the rules of golf when out for a knock about , Commpetitions are a different story but if me and 3 mates head out for a knock its a bit of fun thats all .. surely the rules of golf are meant for competition ? yeah / no ?

 

[chris661]

Does breaking the rules make it all rigt whenever the time/game you do it?

 

[surefire]

I love it, whenever something like this occurs, the people who break the rules, try to make the people who don't, feel like they are the ones in the wrong.

As regarding rules tho, if me and you go out for a friendly knock about ,say you have a new driver , i give it a whack on say the 5th tee & give it back to you & you use it , what happens ? i ask you what you played to a par 3 & you tell me ? what happens ? im sure i break loads of the rules of golf when out for a knock about , Commpetitions are a different story but if me and 3 mates head out for a knock its a bit of fun thats all .. surely the rules of golf are meant for competition ? yeah / no ?

The rules of golf, are meant for playing golf. Maybe you play differently, but unless I am practising, when I play, I play by the rules.

However, assuming your above hypothetical situation, the rules we break would lead to us getting penalty strokes or DQ'd. Assuming we ignore the penalty strokes, we would have signed for wrong cards and been DQ'd. All these penalties only apply to the round in question.

Gambling in ways that the R&A deem unacceptable, mean giving up amateur status, the penalties for this apply to more than just the round in question.

 

[bluewolf]

1. The OP was not asking for your opinion on the auction, merely some hints as to how to improve his style. You just felt like giving your opinion..
2. This is clearly a social knock between friends.. they can do what they like..they don't even need your permission..
3. the rules of golf are not black and white regarding amateur or professional.. there is also the proviso to be an "other". A grey area, which is routinely ignored..

When I play in a competiion, even a friendly one, I stick to the rules. When I play a social knock with friends, we have fun. Some rules may get broken, these don't affect the nature in which the game is played. Not every round of golf needs to be played to R&A standards. Some are fun/practise/social rounds..

Oh, and could you let me know who you are going to report the OP to. I am struggling to get my head round who is going to punish the OP for playing a social knock with friends...

 

[surefire]

1. The OP was not asking for your opinion on the auction, merely some hints as to how to improve his style. You just felt like giving your opinion..
2. This is clearly a social knock between friends.. they can do what they like..they don't even need your permission..
3. the rules of golf are not black and white regarding amateur or professional.. there is also the proviso to be an "other". A grey area, which is routinely ignored..

When I play in a competiion, even a friendly one, I stick to the rules. When I play a social knock with friends, we have fun. Some rules may get broken, these don't affect the nature in which the game is played. Not every round of golf needs to be played to R&A standards. Some are fun/practise/social rounds..

Oh, and could you let me know who you are going to report the OP to. I am struggling to get my head round who is going to punish the OP for playing a social knock with friends...

1) The OP asked for any views on running an auction. Unfortunately, he did not like Murphs or my view.

2)Read one of my posts - I will quote it again below for you.

No one is stopping anyone from doing anything, but this is yet another example of people asking others for an opinion when they already have made up their mind on the matter, not getting the answer they hoped for, and then lashing out about it.

The no one, includes me.

3) They are black and white regarding running an auction and amateur status, again reread my earlier post with the rule, I won't repost this one as it is long.

I'm not going to report the OP to anyone, I never said I was going to do anything of the sort.

Again my point stands, if you want to do something wrong, fine go ahead, but don't try and justify it as right, or make the people who tell you it is wrong, feel as if they are the ones doing wrong.

 

[bladeplayer]

As regarding rules tho, if me and you go out for a friendly knock about ,say you have a new driver , i give it a whack on say the 5th tee & give it back to you & you use it , what happens ? i ask you what you played to a par 3 & you tell me ? what happens ? im sure i break loads of the rules of golf when out for a knock about , Commpetitions are a different story but if me and 3 mates head out for a knock its a bit of fun thats all .. surely the rules of golf are meant for competition ? yeah / no ?

.

However, assuming your above hypothetical situation, the rules we break would lead to us getting penalty strokes or DQ'd. Assuming we ignore the penalty strokes, we would have signed for wrong cards and been DQ'd. All these penalties only apply to the round in question.

DQ'D from what tho ? we wont be signing cards . might not even have a card ? my question was regarding what happens in a knock around between mates ? thats what the op is doing . 12 mates all playing for fun, all aware of the format before they start. i totaly 100% agree the min you register to play in an organised competition of any sort you agree & are bound to play withinn the rules of golf . thats a given ,

 

[bladeplayer]

Does breaking the rules make it all rigt whenever the time/game you do it?

Does anyone on here play to every rule of golf every time you play ? (excluding comps) Are the rules of golf not set down for competition only ?

 

[surefire]

Bladeplayer - Anything you do in a knock around with mates, only affects that round in question. That's my exact point, DQ'd from what - nothing, so no effect if that's how you choose to play.

Running an auction like that means amateur status is given up - not just for that event, for all future events unless it is applied to be reinstated.

Will the OP get caught, or will there be any comeback from it, I would say 99.99% chance that nothing will happen at all. The OP will go ahead and do it, and nothing bad will happen, and life will go on for everyone.

Because you won't get caught, does that make it not against the rules? I'm not saying don't do it, just pointing out that its against the rules. I can't speak for others, but I assume the others agree with me that it is illegal feel the same.

 

[bladeplayer]

"but features that would be consistent with such
gambling or wagering include:
• participation in the gambling or wagering is open to non-players;
and
• the amount of money involved is generally considered to be
excessive."

Totaly respect what your saying surefire& will agree to disagree , just wondering on one piece of the rule tho, is doing this auction thing ok if you dont breach the piece quoted above .. ie non players not gambling or the ammount is not excessive (who ever decides that i dont know) , just asking because like alot of other rules i think i understand it then theres a BUT at the end of it

 

[surefire]

You missed the bit above the lines you quote.

"Other forms of gambling or wagering where there is a requirement for
players to participate (e.g. compulsory sweepstakes) or that have the
potential to involve considerable sums of money (e.g. calcuttas and
auction sweepstakes – where players or teams are sold by auction)
are not approved."

the lines you quote then come later preceded by the line

"Otherwise, it is difficult to define unacceptable forms of gambling or
wagering precisely, but features that would be consistent with such"

I read this to mean compulsory sweepstakes, auctions and Calcuttas are definitely illegal - This bit is black and white, but other forms of gambling are a grey area.

 

[bladeplayer]

You missed the bit above the lines you quote.

"Other forms of gambling or wagering where there is a requirement for
players to participate (e.g. compulsory sweepstakes) or that have the
potential to involve considerable sums of money (e.g. calcuttas and
auction sweepstakes – where players or teams are sold by auction)
are not approved."

the lines you quote then come later preceded by the line

"Otherwise, it is difficult to define unacceptable forms of gambling or
wagering precisely, but features that would be consistent with such"

I read this to mean compulsory sweepstakes, auctions and Calcuttas are definitely illegal - This bit is black and white, but other forms of gambling are a grey area.

Ah right , i read it the other way, that these would be an exception , apologies for that , thanks for clearing that up for me.. ive no idea what a calcutta is. just one thing else tho do you think if you were holding an auction where participation was optional rather than a requirement , is that legal.. ? does requirement = compelled to participate in this ? thanks

 

[surefire]

In terms of sports betting, a Calcutta is basically just another name for an auction.

Bids are taken on each player\team. The person\team who bid on the winning player\team takes all the money (or a set percentage) collected through the auction.

 

[bladeplayer]

In terms of sports betting, a Calcutta is basically just another name for an auction.

Bids are taken on each player\team. The person\team who bid on the winning player\team takes all the money (or a set percentage) collected through the auction.

cheers again .. i just edited the last post to ask , if the auction was optional rather than a requirement , is it then ok? thanks for the info ..

 

[bluewolf]

As a last point, as there are some pretty entrenched views on the subject, which aren't going to change, the OP asked for TIPS as to how to run an auction, not views or opinions. TIPS...Maybe we should limit this thread to TIPS on how to run an auction, not Views or opinions on that auction....

 

[surefire]

In terms of sports betting, a Calcutta is basically just another name for an auction.

Bids are taken on each player\team. The person\team who bid on the winning player\team takes all the money (or a set percentage) collected through the auction.

cheers again .. i just edited the last post to ask , if the auction was optional rather than a requirement , is it then ok? thanks for the info ..

I believe if it is optional, it becomes OK.

I might be wrong here, but I think the reason it is illegal if compulsory, is that effectively it becomes an entry fee for each player to create a prize pool.

E.g every player could bid on themselves, with a set minimum reserve. Effectively you now have a pro competition where everyone has paid an entry fee and is playing for a prize pool.

 

[Region3]

Effectively you now have a pro competition where everyone has paid an entry fee and is playing for a prize pool.

Isn't that what happens in any comp at any golf club?

 

[surefire]

Effectively you now have a pro competition where everyone has paid an entry fee and is playing for a prize pool.

Isn't that what happens in any comp at any golf club?

Most clubs pay out pro shop vouchers, rather than cash.