rule please

[clubchamp07]

I was playing today and I hooked my tee shot into tree's or so we thought. I hit a provisonal and it was hit better but on the same line.
We walked up to the tree's to where we thought my ball had went in, my playing partner walked further and seen what we thought was my 2nd ball.
we looked for my 1st ball for a few minutes then just walked to the other ball. Nothing was said we just walked.

The 2 balls where the same number but with different markings on them. I looked at the ball and seen it was a 3 so didn't bother to look any futher. I hit it up just short of the green and whenever I arrived I found it to be my 1st ball.
We were playing match play. 1st of all, we where looking in the wrong place for my 1st ball, 2nd, we were sure my 1st ball went into the tree's. and 3rdly we didnt know the rule.....

Does anyone know what the rule is here either in stroke play and match play or is the rule the same for both competition's. I'll let you know what I think the rule is after I see what u all think....

 

[RGuk]

I'm struggling to piece together the whole story...but if you played a provisional, found a ball, hit it and worked out it was your first, there's no story in this - surely?

My understanding is that you correctly played a provisional then hit a ball (that was yours) which was either no.1 or no.2. If you'd found no.1 you'd have to play it...you can't elect to pretend it's lost if it's in the sh**.

By good fortune, I think you have escaped any breach of rules. I throws up the interesting idea that if you play the same number prov' ball as your first, it would be easy to pretend the second was actually your first!

Dunno any more.....could be wrong....usually am!

Dave

 

[madandra]

WIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET ME THE NUROFEN !!!!!!!!!!!


For F*** Sake, I passed out with brain strain after the first paragraph. I am sorry but that is one you would strugle to find in the R&A rules book. You may find it in the Caddyshack Rule Book.

Am of for a lie down with a cold compress on my 4head.

 

[tpred]

As far as i see it you havent broken any rule.You played a provisional which you should have done.Then you found your original ball so you carry on playing that ball and pick up your provisional.End of Story.

Hey Madandra hows the head lol.

 

[madandra]

But in thinking he was playing his provisional he is actually declaring his first ball LOST. I think it is loss of hole in matchplay or DQ in stroke. I am probably wrong tho'.

 

[RGuk]

But in thinking he was playing his provisional he is actually declaring his first ball LOST.

I agree, that would make sense.....

Dave

 

[tpred]

Your probably right madandra.Im confused with what exactly happened.Thats why i keep a totaly different ball in my bag so if i need to play a prisisonal i CANT get confused.Nor can my playing partner.

 

[clubchamp07]

I thought I was playing the provisional but it turned out to be the 1st ball. after we had finished the hole while we where playing the next I walked down the previous hole and found my provisional. What I did was I gave the hole to the guy I was playing because we idnt know what the rule was.

 

[tpred]

see im getting tongue tied now.Provisional not prisisional.

 

[John_Findlay]

Crumbs, clubchamp. You're testing us with this one.

In your case it sounds like, because nothing was said, you shouldn't be penalised. However, if you had said to your opponent that you were playing what you thought was the provisional ball then a penalty would have applied. Rule 9 deals with "Information as to Strokes Taken. " It says



"An opponent is entitled to ascertain from the player, during the play of a hole, the number of strokes he has taken and, after play of a hole, the number of strokes taken on the hole just completed.

b. Wrong Information
A player must not give wrong information to his opponent. If a player gives wrong information, he loses the hole.
A player is deemed to have given wrong information if he:
(i) fails to inform his opponent as soon as practicable that he has incurred a penalty, unless (a) he was obviously proceeding under a Rule involving a penalty and this was observed by his opponent, or (b) he corrects the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke; or

(ii) gives incorrect information during play of a hole regarding the number of strokes taken and does not correct the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke; or

(iii) gives incorrect iformation regarding the number of strokes taken to complete a hole and this affects the opponent's understanding of the result of the hole, unless he corrects the mistake before any player makes a stroke from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players leave the putting green.

A player has given wrong information even if it is due to the failure to include a penalty that he did not know he had incurred. It is the player's responsibility to know the Rules. "



However, I think you did the right thing. You obviously both thought you were playing 4 from where you lay and that may have had an effect on how your opponent would have played the hole, so it's only equitable that you conceded the hole to him.

I'm sure Tiger would have claimed the hole - oops, controvertial !

You are a veritable Jack Nicklaus of a man (except for the wayward shots, obviously)

 

[Marko77]

My judgement would be along the lines of what JF has stated.

In matchplay - loss of hole due to wrong information or misguidance to your opponent.

In strokeplay you would have just 'got lucky'

At least you mark your ball, I play with someone quite regularly never marks his ball. What you playing? "Titleist 4" - yes, so are half the club....

 

[John_Findlay]

Good point, Mark. Dots or smiley faces on the ball ?

 

[clubchamp07]

I always mark my ball, it dosent matter now but just before I hit the provisional I stated that it had 3 dotts on it as my first ball had only 1 dot they where both Titleist 3's so I was able to prove to my playing partner that I wasn't telling lie's.
I have been playing golf for over 27 years and have never came across this type of rule before.

I won my match even with giving up that hole.

I was under the impression that it didn't feel right to me so I always say if it dosen't feel right it must be wrong....

 

[madandra]

I harp back to the back page of the rule book.



PLAY THE BALL AS IT LIES
PLAY THE COURSE AS YOU FIND IT
IF YOU CAN'T DO EITHER, DO WHAT IS FAIR
BUT TO DO WHAT IS FAIR, YOU NEED TO KNOW
THE RULES OF GOLF.



Clubchamp, your golfing instinct told you yo conciede the whole.

Well done m8

 

[clubchamp07]

I'm going to ask my Pro today and if he dosen't know I will ask the manager of our club, He's on some rules commitee.

I agree with you that I was under the impression I was playing my provisional, and so that I had given up my 1st ball as lost.
We have lift clean and place at the minute and I should of lifted the ball and cleaned it, then I would of seen that it was my 1st ball, But seeing as I thought there was no point I didn't bother my Ass.
We live and learn....

 

[viscount17]

J-F will correct me if I'm wrong (please), but I think you can lift and clean to the extent necessary to identify your ball at any time not just when it's winter rules.

 

[clubchamp07]

I'm not sure if the player can lift his own ball I think he may have to ask his playing partners to lift it and see if it his ball.

I asked my Pro today and a few others about the ruling and I'm still no futher forward. I think seeing as I didn't take the 5 minutes allowed to look for the 1st ball that I would of been ok to carry on playing.
I have learn't from this and in future I shall be checking my ball at all times.
Just goes to show even a seasoned golfer can be caught out with something so easy.

 

[John_Findlay]

Hi Viscount,

Yes, you can lift your ball to identify it, but only after announcing your intention to your playing partner. Cleaning it is a different matter.

Rule 12 says;-

"The responsibility for playing the proper ball rests with the player. Each player should put an identification mark on his ball.

Except in a hazard, if a player has reason to believe a ball is his, he may lift the ball without penalty to identify it.

Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball. He may then lift the ball and identify it provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to observe the lifting and replacement.

The ball must not be cleaned beyond the extent necessary for identification when lifted under Rule 12-2. If the player fails to comply with all or any part of this procedure, or if he lifts his ball for identification in a hazard, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.
If the lifted ball is the player's ball he must replace it. If he fails to do so, he incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 12-2, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule.

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 12-2:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes."

 

[viscount17]

Looks like you're doubly penalised in a hazard
- once by the simple fact of being there,
- then again because you're denied the opportunity of identifying your ball (if there is reasonable doubt) and thus risk incurring further penalty for playing the wrong ball.

 

[John_Findlay]

No Viscount. You can't play a wrong ball from a hazard. If you play the ball you think is yours from a bunker but it's the wrong one then you simply replace it. See rule 15.