Rule 14-2b Assistance!

[chris661]

I knew that in the casual water case, you can either play the ball as it lies, or take full or maximum available relief. I guess that at my previous club, where I learnt the rules, we must have had the local rule that prohibited play from GUR, so wrongly assumed that it applied everywhere. I did know that the one club length relief includes your stance if your back is is to the AGC, which many players don't seem to know, and is what seems to have caught out Rory. Will you accept that rule 25-1 is confusingly written and that you have to read it in conjunction with the definition of Ground Under Repair. I apologise if I have misled anybody! I thought I was pretty knowlegable on the rules, so this proves that you can always learn more!

Now can we get back to rule 14-2b, which is the main subject of this thread please?

:rofl: still nothing like "I was wrong. Sorry" but the rules are confusingly written. :rofl:

You have just joined a very exclusive list on here for me. Enjoy the rest of your time moaning about rules you don't even know properly. Unbelievable.

 

[DCB]

I did know that the one club length relief includes your stance if your back is is to the AGC, which many players don't seem to know, and is what seems to have caught out Rory.

Confused by this statement, what's your stance got to do with it ?

 

[delc]

:rofl: still nothing like "I was wrong. Sorry" but the rules are confusingly written. :rofl:

You have just joined a very exclusive list on here for me. Enjoy the rest of your time moaning about rules you don't even know properly. Unbelievable.

I did apologise! What do you want? Blood? Now what about rule 14-2b and decision 14-2/1?

 

[Colin L]

Generally speaking GUR is there to allow a damaged part of the course to recover, so I would prefer not to play from it, even if I am allowed to do so within the rules.

Del,
I have a rule not to react to nonsense on internet forums, not to show annoyance at individuals, not to get involved in disputes.......
...but I'm about to break it.

My explanation of how you were mistaken and why you might have been mistaken was, I think, comprehensive, polite and helpful.

Your reply is a breathtakingly evasive leap, a shifting of ground of earthquake proportions. You are completely mistaken about a Rule and get short shrift from a number of posters for doing so. There is obviously a history but I think to myself, don't get into that, just explain the rule so that Del can now get it right. So I take the time and trouble to work out the probable cause of the mistake and go into some detail to explain it. Now I don't look for abundant praise and gratitude for that, but a wee thank you would have been good. You know, nothing expansive, maybe just along the simple lines of "Thanks for that , Colin.... "

Fortunately, the way in which you skite rapidly sideways away from being wrong into some sort of oblique hint that you weren't really wrong, you just "prefer" to care for the condition of your course is so outrageous it is funny. And even funnier is the wriggling away from being wrong by blaming the wording of the Rule. The wording and structuring of the Rule is quite clear, as I hope I showed above.

Del, there is nothing wrong in being wrong. We all make mistakes with the rules of golf. I've done it in this forum (and others). So what. You get corrected, you get a red face, you learn ...... and you show a little appreciation to those from whom you have learned.

There now, I feel better for breaking my internet rules for once and will now award your points

For grace, good humour and willingness to learn when shown to be wrong 2/10
For entertainment value 10/10

 

[delc]

Confused by this statement, what's your stance got to do with it ?

You must not stand within the condition you are taking relief from (unless there is a local rule to that effect, or you are taking maximum available relief). There are some pretty pictures of this on the R&A website, so why don't you take a look? By the way, this is what Rory McIlroy got penalised for in Abu Dhabi, He dropped outside the GUR line, but close enough that one or both of his heels where on the line when he took his stance.

 

[DCB]

so how can the one club length relief include your stance.......

 

[delc]

Del,
I have a rule not to react to nonsense on internet forums, not to show annoyance at individuals, not to get involved in disputes.......
...but I'm about to break it.

My explanation of how you were mistaken and why you might have been mistaken was, I think, comprehensive, polite and helpful.

Your reply is a breathtakingly evasive leap, a shifting of ground of earthquake proportions. You are completely mistaken about a Rule and get short shrift from a number of posters for doing so. There is obviously a history but I think to myself, don't get into that, just explain the rule so that Del can now get it right. So I take the time and trouble to work out the probable cause of the mistake and go into some detail to explain it. Now I don't look for abundant praise and gratitude for that, but a wee thank you would have been good. You know, nothing expansive, maybe just along the simple lines of "Thanks for that , Colin.... "

Fortunately, the way in which you skite rapidly sideways away from being wrong into some sort of oblique hint that you weren't really wrong, you just "prefer" to care for the condition of your course is so outrageous it is funny. And even funnier is the wriggling away from being wrong by blaming the wording of the Rule. The wording and structuring of the Rule is quite clear, as I hope I showed above.

Del, there is nothing wrong in being wrong. We all make mistakes with the rules of golf. I've done it in this forum (and others). So what. You get corrected, you get a red face, you learn ...... and you show a little appreciation to those from whom you have learned.

There now, I feel better for breaking my internet rules for once and will now award your points

For grace, good humour and willingness to learn when shown to be wrong 2/10
For entertainment value 10/10

I explained why my interpretation of this particular rule was incorrect, which was a local rule at my previous club prohibiting play from an area marked GUR, which I assumed to be universal. I will now go and read the local rules pinned up on a notice board at my present club to see what applies there. In any case GUR is usually marked either to allow a damaged area to recover, or because it would be unreasonable to expect a player to play from the condition. So there is almost always a justification for taking a free drop from GUR, even if you don't strictly have to within the rules.

 

[Fyldewhite]

so how can the one club length relief include your stance.......

He means "Nearest Point of Relief" but "....the one club length relief includes your stance..." is close enough surely?

 

[Twire]

I explained why my interpretation of this particular rule was incorrect, which was a local rule at my previous club prohibiting play from an area marked GUR, which I assumed to be universal. I will now go and read the local rules pinned up on a notice board at my present club to see what applies there. In any case GUR is usually marked either to allow a damaged area to recover, or because it would be unreasonable to expect a player to play from the condition. So there is almost always a justification for taking a free drop from GUR, even if you don't strictly have to within the rules.

Areas are marked GUR for many reasons. If you have an option to play from GUR surely the best thing to do is make a decision on a case for case basis rather than a blanket "it's GUR I'm taking a drop". If you look at the back of your score card you'll probably find the local rule your after reference GUR.

Sometimes Del, it's just best to hold your hands up and admit your wrong rather than trying to wriggle out of it. You'll gain a lot more respect that way.

 

[Colin L]

I explained why my interpretation of this particular rule was incorrect, which was a local rule at my previous club prohibiting play from an area marked GUR, which I assumed to be universal. I will now go and read the local rules pinned up on a notice board at my present club to see what applies there. In any case GUR is usually marked either to allow a damaged area to recover, or because it would be unreasonable to expect a player to play from the condition. So there is almost always a justification for taking a free drop from GUR, even if you don't strictly have to within the rules.

I'm seldom at a loss for words but ........

 

[delc]

so how can the one club length relief include your stance.......

It can't! You determine your nearest point of relief, which includes your stance and the club you intend to use for your next shot, and then you have one club length from there, not nearer the hole etc. See decision 24-2b/1.

In simple terms if you are facing whatever it is you are taking relief from (using your normal stance), you drop within one club length of that. If the condition is behind you, you take your normal stance with your heels close to but not touching the condition or line, and using the club you intend to use for your next shot. Then mark where the club head sits and then use the same club to mark out one further club length. You have to drop within that second mark.

 

[Fyldewhite]

It can't! You determine your nearest point of relief, which includes your stance and the club you intend to use for your next shot, and then you have one club length from there, not nearer the hole etc. See decision 24-2b/1.

In simple terms if you are facing whatever it is you are taking relief from (using your normal stance), you drop within one club length of that. If the condition is behind you, you take your normal stance with your heels close to but not touching the condition or line, and using the club you intend to use for your next shot. Then mark where the club head sits and then use any club to mark out one further club length. You have to drop within that second mark.

I've amended that for you

 

[DCB]

He means "Nearest Point of Relief" but "....the one club length relief includes your stance..." is close enough surely?

Once the NPR is identified the ball must be dropped within one clublength of the point of NPR and no nearer the hole. It can roll up two further clublengths from the point where the ball first landed again, no nearer the hole.

One of the situations where the rules are there to help and in many cases not used to gain all the help they allow.

 

[delc]

Perhaps the diagram in this link would help:

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=78FB0CF3-8F4A-44DF-B7F0-906DC1B2CD31

 

[delc]

I've amended that for you

Thanks. I had forgetten that you can use any club to measure from the NPR. By the way, I believe that if you originally intended to use a fairway wood, but drop the ball into an awful lie and have to use a wedge, there is no penalty for using a shorter club than was used to determine the NPR.

 

[chris661]

It can't! You determine your nearest point of relief, which includes your stance and the club you intend to use for your next shot, and then you have one club length from there, not nearer the hole etc. See decision 24-2b/1.

In simple terms if you are facing whatever it is you are taking relief from (using your normal stance), you drop within one club length of that. If the condition is behind you, you take your normal stance with your heels close to but not touching the condition or line, and using the club you intend to use for your next shot. Then mark where the club head sits and then use the same club to mark out one further club length. You have to drop within that second mark.

Surely you mean any club to measure the one club length. Or is this another thing you have made up to suit your argument. I suggest you actually read a rule book (or at least the bits you want to argue about) before proclaiming to "know" what is what with the rules.

Frankly you are making yourself look quite silly with your attitude.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Perhaps the diagram in this link would help:

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=78FB0CF3-8F4A-44DF-B7F0-906DC1B2CD31

I'm a little confused as to who needs or has asked for help. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm fine with the rules regarding where to drop. My earlier post about the "one clublength includes your stance" statement in post 140 was aimed at pointing out that the terminology used was a little confusing for anyone reading it when what you meant was "NPR includes your stance".

I also pointed out that your explanation in post 151 was simply wrong in that you do not have to use the "same club" to measure the clublength.

 

[delc]

Surely you mean any club to measure the one club length. Or is this another thing you have made up to suit your argument. I suggest you actually read a rule book (or at least the bits you want to argue about) before proclaiming to "know" what is what with the rules.

Frankly you are making yourself look quite silly with your attitude.

Generally I am pretty good with the rules, and am disappointed if I don't get at least 9 out of 10 right in any rules quiz. However nobody's perfect (except John Paramor) and that minor error was pointed out and apologised for in post #155.

 

[delc]

I'm a little confused as to who needs or has asked for help. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm fine with the rules regarding where to drop. My earlier post about the "one clublength includes your stance" statement in post 140 was aimed at pointing out that the terminology used was a little confusing for anyone reading it when what you meant was "NPR includes your stance".

I also pointed out that your explanation in post 151 was simply wrong in that you do not have to use the "same club" to measure the clublength.

I have already apologized for that minor error, so what's your problem?

 

[chrisd]

Generally I am pretty good with the rules

Good at what?

Wanting them all changed or not understanding them??