Rollups, Swindles, WHS

[sawtooth]

England Golf recommend that we include regular, organised, social events such as rollups for handicap purposes.

I posed this idea at our last committee meeting and it went down like a cup of cold sick.

What is your club doing about this?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We aren’t doing anything

Only scores going to WHS are from qualifying comps and when anyone wants to put a card in

Swindles can do as they wish and it won’t change because it keeps the social aspect of it and ensures that social golf is as relaxed as it’s supposed to be.

The swindles I play in have their own handicap system and if EG forced clubs then we would just play gimmies

 

[apj0524]

We aren’t doing anything

Only scores going to WHS are from qualifying comps and when anyone wants to put a card in

Swindles can do as they wish and it won’t change because it keeps the social aspect of it and ensures that social golf is as relaxed as it’s supposed to be.

The swindles I play in have their own handicap system and if EG forced clubs then we would just play gimmies

^^^^^ This the policing of it would be impossible, stupid idea in my view

 

[rulefan]

^^^^^ This the policing of it would be impossible, stupid idea in my view

There are a few clubs in my area where some groups have asked for their weekly rollups to be recognised for handicapping. No such groups in my club but they are all team 3 from 4 etc. But the Rabbits & Seniors have run regular 'qualifiers' for years.

 

[jim8flog]

England Golf recommend that we include regular, organised, social events such as rollups for handicap purposes.

I posed this idea at our last committee meeting and it went down like a cup of cold sick.

What is your club doing about this?

It has been discussed in several other threads and already said the biggest thing is to be Acceptable Scores they must be played in accordance with The Rules of Golf and every swindle I play in does not do that. If England Golf /CONGU were to authorise 'Most Likely Score' in such play then it could change

To the best of my knowledge nothing has been agreed where I play about accepting such scores.

 

[Voyager EMH]

England Golf recommend that we include regular, organised, social events such as rollups for handicap purposes.

I posed this idea at our last committee meeting and it went down like a cup of cold sick.

What is your club doing about this?

Nowt, and quite rightly. Up to the individual at anytime who will then have to putt out every hole etc. Has always been like that, it has been done at times (applying for first handicap, supplementary scores), and no need for club to instruct players otherwise. Cold vomit scenario has been avoided, thankfully.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It has been a very contentious subject. The club has decided that it will look to adhere as much as possible to what WHS aims to achieve and so our rollups are WHS counting. Has not gone down well with many as they 100% look at every WHS counting round as if it was equivalent to an old qualifier - which they aren’t. But they play as if they are and that is not consistent with the relaxed fun way we play our rollup. So gimmes and banter seem out as a qualifier is ‘serious’. One thing the main rollup I play in is going to do is for us to play a non-qualifying format (AM-AM ie 3 from 4 count) one week in four.

Personally I think we can still play our rollup round in the same spirit and pretty much as we always have - i simply ignore the fact that my rollup round might contribute to my handicap. If I play and score well then great - my HI will most likely be reduced. I WANT a great rollup score of any player to be reflected in their Hi. If I play rubbish then - at least in the short term- my HI will not be impacted at all, and even when it might one day count then it’s only going to have a marginal impact as the differential is averaged out. Too many are still playing as if each and every rubbish round is likely to result in a +0.1 increase.

Any increase in time it takes to play having to hole what were gimmes is IMO minimal. Gimmes should only be tap-ins or they shouldn’t really be gimmes. And tap-ins should not take any time - especially as you can take a view that missing it doesn’t really matter...as what you score in the end generally won’t matter to your HI.

 

[r0wly86]

It has been a very contentious subject. The club has decided that it will look to adhere as much as possible to what WHS aims to achieve and so our rollups are WHS counting. Has not gone down well with many as they 100% look at every WHS counting round as if it was equivalent to an old qualifier - which they aren’t. But they play as if they are and that is not consistent with the relaxed fun way we play our rollup. So gimmes and banter seem out as a qualifier is ‘serious’. One thing the main rollup I play in is going to do is for us to play a non-qualifying format (AM-AM ie 3 from 4 count) one week in four.

Personally I think we can still play our rollup round in the same spirit and pretty much as we always have - i simply ignore the fact that my rollup round might contribute to my handicap. If I play and score well then great - my HI will most likely be reduced. I WANT a great rollup score of any player to be reflected in their Hi. If I play rubbish then - at least in the short term- my HI will not be impacted at all, and even when it might one day count then it’s only going to have a marginal impact as the differential is averaged out. Too many are still playing as if each and every rubbish round is likely to result in a +0.1 increase.

Any increase in time it takes to play having to hole what were gimmes is IMO minimal. Gimmes should only be tap-ins or they shouldn’t really be gimmes. And tap-ins should not take any time - especially as you can take a view that missing it doesn’t really matter...as what you score in the end generally won’t matter to your HI.

I think this is the issue

I believe the WHS is meant to take if not all, then the majority of rounds to accurately reflect current form and scoring ability. But I guess it is hard to get out of the habit of thinking about "qualifying rounds" after all that is how we did our handicaps for decades. I guess people just have to get into the habit of submitting their scores and not worrying about their handicap going up (or down) and accept it that this is how golf is played now. For what it's worth I think roll ups and swindles should be included in the WHS but also that gimmees should not be a barrier to a score being submitted

 

[2blue]

I think this is the issue

I believe the WHS is meant to take if not all, then the majority of rounds to accurately reflect current form and scoring ability. But I guess it is hard to get out of the habit of thinking about "qualifying rounds" after all that is how we did our handicaps for decades. I guess people just have to get into the habit of submitting their scores and not worrying about their handicap going up (or down) and accept it that this is how golf is played now. For what it's worth I think roll ups and swindles should be included in the WHS but also that gimmees should not be a barrier to a score being submitted

IMO it's absolutely this ^^^^^^^
Folk are incredibly possessive of their H/cap to the point where they could be said to be 'managing' it.
Our Club has a 'Society' that plays singles once a month on local courses & have done for years, the results of which have been used at Annual Review. Dismay resulted when asked that these be submitted for their H/cap records. We're still waiting for a reason from them, for why they should not be counted.
There's an awful lot that folk don't understand about the operation of WHS.... the main one being that they manage player's H/caps, NOT the players.

 

[clubchamp98]

Every round should not have the feeling “ you have a card in your hand”
A lot of golfers just want a small wager playing with their friends.
WHS is changing the fundamental way we enjoy our sport.
It should always be up to the player to decide if he wants to play a Q card.

 

[r0wly86]

Every round should not have the feeling “ you have a card in your hand”
A lot of golfers just want a small wager playing with their friends.
WHS is changing the fundamental way we enjoy our sport.
It should always be up to the player to decide if he wants to play a Q card.

why? what difference does it make if the card goes in or not

 

[clubchamp98]

why? what difference does it make if the card goes in or not

There isn’t a difference as such ,but a mental attitude change imo.
That may change over time who knows.
But how many times have you played crap and put it down to “having a card in your pocket.”
I hear that every week.

We have two four balls of over 80s and one is over 90 yrs old.
Do these guys really need to put cards in every time they play.
One still has a Titleist pull trolley because “ he dosnt like the new trolleys they go to fast.”

 

[r0wly86]

There isn’t a difference as such ,but a mental attitude change imo.
That may change over time who knows.
But how many times have you played crap and put it down to “having a card in your pocket.”
I hear that every week.

that is exactly my point above, it is an attitude born out of the old handicap system, that doesn't exist anymore.

In reality it makes no difference to submit a card every round, not really. It wouldn't take long to readjust, probably less than 10 rounds. It is simply "it's the way we've always done it" type of resistance to change

 

[clubchamp98]

that is exactly my point above, it is an attitude born out of the old handicap system, that doesn't exist anymore.

In reality it makes no difference to submit a card every round, not really. It wouldn't take long to readjust, probably less than 10 rounds. It is simply "it's the way we've always done it" type of resistance to change

Sorry but I just don’t agree.
Social golf and having a “card in your hand” are completely different things.
Under the old system only comps counted unless you wanted a supplementary card in.
How many players did that?
Not many I would guess?
It’s not all about handicap ,players just want to go for a walk with their bats sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

that is exactly my point above, it is an attitude born out of the old handicap system, that doesn't exist anymore.

In reality it makes no difference to submit a card every round, not really. It wouldn't take long to readjust, probably less than 10 rounds. It is simply "it's the way we've always done it" type of resistance to change

Do you not have to putt out on any round where the score goes towards the WHS HC ?

Many swindles have 4BBB internal games , ginmies to help keep up pace of pay , sometimes someone can only play 9 holes , etc

Imagine every single round where you have to putt out and the affect that will have on pace of play

People want to have the clear definition between a competition and a social relaxed swindle - and they will treat each separate. Swindles will have their own HCs they use , gimmies , little matches , all about the social aspect of the game

 

[r0wly86]

Sorry but I just don’t agree.
Social golf and having a “card in your hand” are completely different things.
Under the old system only comps counted unless you wanted a supplementary card in.
How many players did that?
Not many I would guess?
It’s not all about handicap ,players just want to go for a walk with their bats sometimes.

but that is just I have always done it that way so not going to change

 

[r0wly86]

Do you not have to putt out on any round where the score goes towards the WHS HC ?

Many swindles have 4BBB internal games , ginmies to help keep up pace of pay , sometimes someone can only play 9 holes , etc

Imagine every single round where you have to putt out and the affect that will have on pace of play

People want to have the clear definition between a competition and a social relaxed swindle - and they will treat each separate. Swindles will have their own HCs they use , gimmies , little matches , all about the social aspect of the game

I said earlier that I think gimmees should be allowed for a WHS card. People get precious about their handicap, hence the qualifying rounds and trying to make buffer etc, when they really should acccept that the WHS is there to more accurately reflect current form and scoring ability. Not to worry about going up a few strokes, as it only reflects current form and not your ultimate ability.

If people got on board with that way of thinking then it is not an issue to put in a card. If you are constantly worried about your handicap, because it is some badge of honour and it hurts your ego to be put up a shot then I understand why you would be against the system. But it isn't a small change to the way handicaps are calculated, it is a complete overhaul to what a handicap is and how it works

 

[clubchamp98]

but that is just I have always done it that way so not going to change

Yes but some changes are totally unessesary lots belive this is one.

 

[r0wly86]

Yes but some changes are totally unessesary lots belive this is one.

but it has happened, necessary or not. Sticking your fingers in your ears and not engaging won't change anything.

A big advantage would be if people bought into the idea of submitting cards all the time, then they wouldn't have card in pocket syndrome.

 

[clubchamp98]

but it has happened, necessary or not. Sticking your fingers in your ears and not engaging won't change anything.

A big advantage would be if people bought into the idea of submitting cards all the time, then they wouldn't have card in pocket syndrome.

Possibly but not everyone thinks that’s an advantage.
Until it’s mandatory and I don’t think that will ever happen.
People will play social golf under their own “ local rules”