RichA
Well-known member
Are you saying that your club insists that the full Rules of Golf are followed by every group of social golfers that books a tee time on a Tuesday morning in February?
Roll Up Group Handicaps
- Thread starter HomerJSimpson
- Start date
D-S
Well-known member
Do those 150 without handicaps pay affiliation fees to the County and to EG?
RichA
Well-known member
I'm guessing it comes straight out of their membership fee, like mine.
I was never given a breakdown of where the fee goes and I never thought to ask.
I'm sure new members are encouraged to get a handicap but it's not mandatory.
Swango1980
Well-known member
At my previous club, when I was handicap sec and pre WHS, we organised roll ups every weekend, and some after work in the summer. The idea being that we could get all our mates together and still have a bit of a competition, but also new members or members who don't have a group of mates at club, could just turn up and play. Worked very well. As this was pre WHS, there was no thought of making these official comps for handicap. It soon became apparent some golfers were much more successful than others, and it frustrated many others. So I derived my own handicap system, and it worked well. With WHS now, we wouldn't have really needed to do this, we could have just got everyone to put scores on official record.
Question is, were these roll ups just run by a group of mates and so scores should not go to the players official record? Or, because I was on the Committee, is it an organised comp that should have scores going to handicap record?
At my new club, where I'm not on Committee, there are 6-8 of us that played for a couple of quid each. After a while, nobody wanted to play anymore, because one player had a really high handicap and barely ever put in any scores. He probably won more than 50% of the roll ups, and those in his group also had to always buy him a coffee for losing their match play. Therefore, lately we have all agreed that if we are doing roll ups and he is playing, everyone must submit their score.
Ultimately, if enough people want to play in roll ups and not have their handicap impacted, it will still commonly occur. But, it'll not stop the frustrations when one person playing the roll up enters all their scores and gets reductions, while another player never submits their scores and continually shoots good scores. Unless somebody is prepared to administer their own handicap system for the roll ups. That can work well, especially at clubs that is shut to handicap rounds over much of the winter. But, you just need someone to administer it. And, it almost seems pointless for most of the year, when their is an official handicap system that can be used very easily now, rather than inventing your own.
Question is, were these roll ups just run by a group of mates and so scores should not go to the players official record? Or, because I was on the Committee, is it an organised comp that should have scores going to handicap record?
At my new club, where I'm not on Committee, there are 6-8 of us that played for a couple of quid each. After a while, nobody wanted to play anymore, because one player had a really high handicap and barely ever put in any scores. He probably won more than 50% of the roll ups, and those in his group also had to always buy him a coffee for losing their match play. Therefore, lately we have all agreed that if we are doing roll ups and he is playing, everyone must submit their score.
Ultimately, if enough people want to play in roll ups and not have their handicap impacted, it will still commonly occur. But, it'll not stop the frustrations when one person playing the roll up enters all their scores and gets reductions, while another player never submits their scores and continually shoots good scores. Unless somebody is prepared to administer their own handicap system for the roll ups. That can work well, especially at clubs that is shut to handicap rounds over much of the winter. But, you just need someone to administer it. And, it almost seems pointless for most of the year, when their is an official handicap system that can be used very easily now, rather than inventing your own.
wjemather
Well-known member
Since the introduction of WHS, "qualifying" and "non-qualifying" are not a thing.
Scores are either acceptable for handicapping or they are not. If it's an organised competition, meeting usual requirements, then scores are acceptable for handicapping and it's the player's responsibility to ensure they are submitted.
Backache
Assistant Pro
Firstly I don't think anyone is saying one should not be able to use WHS for roll ups , but that it should not be compulsory, there are so many different systems in place around the country that one system does not suit all and trying to enforce it on what for many is a social non serious and not played according to RoG is just absurd.
Our roll ups although well organised from a asocial point of view have a format that varies according to things like how many turn up what the weather and pace of play on the course is like. . Enforcing golf rules on this format just would not work.
Backache
Assistant Pro
This is the sheer lunacy of trying to enforce an alien system on accepted practices across the country. Rollups vary in the degrees of organisation competition format etc.
Colonel Blitheringotn-Idiot should carry on with his Kimmel and not try and say how individuals should organise their social golf.
wjemather
Well-known member
If there is someone administering a bespoke handicap system for a rollup/swindle, I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that the competition wasn't organised.
Backache
Assistant Pro
What if the Hcaps are organised and the rules are and they differ from the RoG?
Mandofred
Well-known member
Unless it's an official comp....do what you feel like doing.
-My first clubs rollup I played in knocked you down points if you won or were second depending on what division you were in. Div 1-2+3. These pt reductions lasted the whole year, although they were shortening the time when I left. I was fine with pt reductions to spread the wins out, but the whole year really hurt me a couple of times.
-My second club has booked rollup, Wed for anybody and Thursday for Seniors (although they would let others in as well). Large groups of mid 30's usually. Tee off on 3 different holes (1-15+17) so everybody can get through the 1st tee in 1 hour. No penalties for winning, although it is almost always a drawn group play so if you win it's the whole 3/4 ball that wins, so kind of hard to penalize individuals anyway. Groups are drawn, bag of numbered chips and you have a signup sheet and whatever number you are on the sheet is the same as the chip that is drawn.
-My third club just throws balls into a hat or bag and they pull them out 3 or 4 at a time. Times aren't prebooked, but everybody tends to stay away from those times since they know there is a rollup then. They have a 75% of handicap rule, I'm 5 on the winter tees and I drop to 4...others lose several shots. The club has a fairway winter mat rule, but this group just says "use them wherever you want but the hazards"...until the weather gets better.
When I'm playing in a smaller group (4-8) I would also break the golf gods rules on trying as hard as you can all of the time. If I'm having a real meltdown round and nothing is going decently....I just flat give up at times and pickup. It's either that or hang myself from a tree.....
-My first clubs rollup I played in knocked you down points if you won or were second depending on what division you were in. Div 1-2+3. These pt reductions lasted the whole year, although they were shortening the time when I left. I was fine with pt reductions to spread the wins out, but the whole year really hurt me a couple of times.
-My second club has booked rollup, Wed for anybody and Thursday for Seniors (although they would let others in as well). Large groups of mid 30's usually. Tee off on 3 different holes (1-15+17) so everybody can get through the 1st tee in 1 hour. No penalties for winning, although it is almost always a drawn group play so if you win it's the whole 3/4 ball that wins, so kind of hard to penalize individuals anyway. Groups are drawn, bag of numbered chips and you have a signup sheet and whatever number you are on the sheet is the same as the chip that is drawn.
-My third club just throws balls into a hat or bag and they pull them out 3 or 4 at a time. Times aren't prebooked, but everybody tends to stay away from those times since they know there is a rollup then. They have a 75% of handicap rule, I'm 5 on the winter tees and I drop to 4...others lose several shots. The club has a fairway winter mat rule, but this group just says "use them wherever you want but the hazards"...until the weather gets better.
When I'm playing in a smaller group (4-8) I would also break the golf gods rules on trying as hard as you can all of the time. If I'm having a real meltdown round and nothing is going decently....I just flat give up at times and pickup. It's either that or hang myself from a tree.....
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wjemather
Well-known member
Just 22 out of >550 of our members don't have handicaps and a quarter of them have only recently joined and never held a handicap previously.
Only two have opted out of being registered with EG on the WHS Platform - a requirement for insurance provided through EG membership.
Backache
Assistant Pro
I thought I'd heard most things about the WHS before but that they trying to determine how social golf should be played is the ultimate lunacy.
Can you refuse to pay those? I've never thought that would be an option.
I don't intend to incidentally, I enjoy opens and so need a h/c. Just interested.
Backache
Assistant Pro
We have people come along to our roll ups with a Hcap and no interest in playing in golf competitions and their Hcap histroy is so historical as to be irrelevant they don't particularly want a WHS handicap but they do want to play in the roll up. They get assigned one who apart from the colonel having aploplexy is harmed by this?
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Why do some clubs not have official comps on a Saturday for example?
I was a member of a Jewish club so I understand why they wouldn't hold any comps on a Saturday.
Why a roll up on a Saturday?
I was a member of a Jewish club so I understand why they wouldn't hold any comps on a Saturday.
Why a roll up on a Saturday?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
We look to provide a balance for people to have comp golf and social golf
We don’t have any club roll ups organised , just a club comps
Lots of swindles organised by various members playing different ways -
Find it a nice balance for what the members want
Crow
Crow Person
I know what I meant, you know what I meant.
As to the second paragraph, if I've entered a formal competition where the organisers wish scores to be submitted then yes, I will ensure my score is submitted, otherwise I won't.
D-S
Well-known member
Just for their information, if they aren’t registered on the portal with a CDH/membership number (so they have a handicap) they don’t get the EG insurance.
WorldHandicapSystem
Well-known member
If that’s the rule why not? Don’t like it, play somewhere else.
Some people are more than happy for the club to have rules governing the style and colour of underwear, and follow them without question.
D-S
Well-known member
I don’t think you can although if a club wished to save money (15 to 25 quid a head dependent on location) then they could not register you, although I believe that they should register everyone who has access to the course via a subscription.
