Roll Up Group Handicaps

[Backache]

If the player fulfils all their RoH responsibilities, it makes no difference what scoring format is signed up for, and there is no reason why their handicap wouldn't reflect their ability.

And if they have no interest in a WHS handicap but wish to play social golf with their friends there is no conceivable reason why they should not have a social handicap with those friends. I know many people who have no interest in formal club comps no desire to play golf according to strict rules where everything is putted out and drops are strictly defined but potter along in roll ups enjoying themselves.

(equally I have to say I friends who play fairly serious members roll ups and who adminster their own handicaps and would ridicule any suggestion of moving to WHS which as far as they are concerned allows cheats to flourish)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just because I have a card in my hand and will be recording my score after playing that does not mean I must take my round deadly seriously. If the card is rubbish as a result of silly mistakes or careless putts (don't we don't these anyway no matter the format, comp or not) then so be it. That card sinks to the bottom of my pond in which 8 cards are floating and 12 are sunk - most likely never to be seen again.

I know...I'll now be told that I must always try to play to the best of my ability and must always try my hardest...but hey...guess what...that's already not always the case, especially if a round is going badly.

 

[Dunesman]

Does anybody know who exactly, and when, gave the instruction to the regional associations : guys and gals, your mission please, is to change the habits and culture of the average recreational British golfer ?

 

[Dunesman]

I know...I'll now be told that I must always try to play to the best of my ability and must always try my hardest...but hey...guess what...that's already not always the case, especially if a round is going badly.

You dirty rotten handicap cheater, not fulfilling your handicap obligations. And cheerfully, shamelessly, admitting it publicly ! Golf has no place for you sir. You will be hunted down, and your handicap suspended on the app before your very eyes !

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You dirty rotten handicap cheater, not fulfilling your handicap obligations. And cheerfully, shamelessly, admitting it publicly ! Golf has no place for you sir. You will be hunted down, and your handicap suspended on the app before your very eyes !

I’ll never ‘chuck’ a round…but for instance I might not go through my pre-shot routine every putt…still try and hole it, but less…whatever…

 

[Lord Tyrion]

National Club Golfer are now running with this story. Not, this thread, although someone from there may well scan for stories and picked up on it. It's gaining traction so it it will be interesting to see responses, whether it gets talked about in the wider golfing world.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

Not quite what ngc are saying

If you play in a roll-up and don't put a card in are you a handicapping cheat?

WHS guidance says "regular informal" events, such as golf roll ups, should be classed as "organised competitions" and scores returned

www.nationalclubgolfer.com

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The whole amusing thing about this is

If people did put in every card anytime they played “social” golf , or “swindle” golf that would mean people would have significantly more GP scorecards on their record

BUT

Clubs and Governing bodies etc are bringing in rules into their opens to limit people who have too many GP scorecards

 

[Orikoru]

The whole amusing thing about this is

If people did put in every card anytime they played “social” golf , or “swindle” golf that would mean people would have significantly more GP scorecards on their record

BUT

Clubs and Governing bodies etc are bringing in rules into their opens to limit people who have too many GP scorecards

Yup. England Golf / WHS are just widening the disconnect in golf. They want you to put more and more cards in because they think that makes handicaps more accurate. Clubs however want you to put less GP cards in because they think that's making handicaps artificially high.

All I know is, I started putting every card in last year - and in three rounds time if I don't put a good one in I could be off 16.5. So I've certainly gone up from it. Not that my competition rounds were better than my GP rounds, but simply putting more cards in has seen the index move quicker. If I went and won a comp off 16.5 I can understand how some people would be missed that I'd gone up that much, but I was only doing what England Golf instructs us to do.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The whole amusing thing about this is

If people did put in every card anytime they played “social” golf , or “swindle” golf that would mean people would have significantly more GP scorecards on their record

BUT

Clubs and Governing bodies etc are bringing in rules into their opens to limit people who have too many GP scorecards

It is a tad contradictory, isn't it. Saying that, I understand why clubs have brought these rules into their Opens. Do they talk to each other?

 

[wjemather]

The whole amusing thing about this is

If people did put in every card anytime they played “social” golf , or “swindle” golf that would mean people would have significantly more GP scorecards on their record

BUT

Clubs and Governing bodies etc are bringing in rules into their opens to limit people who have too many GP scorecards

This is not an accurate description of either EG's policies for it's own events, or the conditions of entry that are permitted.

From their comms in September last year: "What is key when introducing these terms is that you CANNOT discriminate between general play or competition scores, as it is NOT allowed to restrict the number of general play scores to be submitted." And regarding their own policy: "...it is not preventing the submission of general play scores, nor setting a maximum of general play scores which can be submitted. The restriction into the competition is based upon a comparison between the competition and general play scores."

 

[Swango1980]

The whole amusing thing about this is

If people did put in every card anytime they played “social” golf , or “swindle” golf that would mean people would have significantly more GP scorecards on their record

BUT

Clubs and Governing bodies etc are bringing in rules into their opens to limit people who have too many GP scorecards

I wonder if organised swindles / roll ups actually set these up like competitions, then golfers would have more competition rounds on their record than GP scores?

I agree that some competition organisers seem to be restricting the amount of GP scores you can have, although I think that is more a misunderstanding on their part. That isn't what the national handicap authority are recommending, in fact they are dead against that. I think what the competition organisers should just be asking for is that golfers have x number of competition rounds within a period of time. It should be irrelevant whether they have had zero or 100 GP scores in that same time

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This is not an accurate description of either EG's policies for it's own events, or the conditions of entry that are permitted.

From their comms in September last year: "What is key when introducing these terms is that you CANNOT discriminate between general play or competition scores, as it is NOT allowed to restrict the number of general play scores to be submitted." And regarding their own policy: "...it is not preventing the submission of general play scores, nor setting a maximum of general play scores which can be submitted. The restriction into the competition is based upon a comparison between the competition and general play scores."

View attachment 57216

Doesn’t matter what rule you copy and paste

We all know because of people using GP scorecard to manipulate their HC clubs and opens are restricting entry to people based on number of GP cards

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I wonder if organised swindles / roll ups actually set these up like competitions, then golfers would have more competition rounds on their record than GP scores?

I agree that some competition organisers seem to be restricting the amount of GP scores you can have, although I think that is more a misunderstanding on their part. That isn't what the national handicap authority are recommending, in fact they are dead against that. I think what the competition organisers should just be asking for is that golfers have x number of competition rounds within a period of time. It should be irrelevant whether they have had zero or 100 GP scores in that same time

If a swindle is set up as a competition then it’s open to whole club etc etc and then it’s not a swindle

 

[Swango1980]

If a swindle is set up as a competition then it’s open to whole club etc etc and then it’s not a swindle

That isn't true.

We have a group of about 20-30 people that play every weekend in a "swindle", when there is no competition on. Playing in it is only open to them, nobody else. There is no booking on to it, they just turn up and sort out their groups on the day. Their scores all go on howdidido and results are published. I would have thought that would appear as a competition round on their record?

Note, we also have a swindle on a Thursday. That is open to all, but it is just turn up and then everyone sorted into groups. Their results also go on howdidido

 

[Arthur Wedge]

That isn't true.

We have a group of about 20-30 people that play every weekend in a "swindle", when there is no competition on. Playing in it is only open to them, nobody else. There is no booking on to it, they just turn up and sort out their groups on the day. There scores all go on howdidido and results are published. I would have thought that would appear as a competition round on their record

So had the club allowed them to deem their swindle to be a qualifying competition and then not allowing anyone to play in the comp ?

Or are they just using HDID to publish their results

 

[wjemather]

If a swindle is set up as a competition then it’s open to whole club etc etc and then it’s not a swindle

Absolute rubbish.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Absolute rubbish.

Why is it ?

 

[Swango1980]

So had the club allowed them to deem their swindle to be a qualifying competition and then not allowing anyone to play in the comp ?

I'm not sure what you are getting at???

The guys in this group arrange to play every weekend when there is no comp on. They are all mates, there are a large number of them, and they play together. It has nothing to do with being a Club Competition open to all.

However, as they organise to play every weekend, the Club has enabled them to use howdidido to enter all their scores and publish their results. So, as far as WHS is concerned, it is surely a competition round, not a GP round?

 

[wjemather]

Why is it ?

Entry to a competition may be restricted based on any number of things, including to a specific group of players.
One of the most common examples would be comps restricted to paid up members of the seniors section, where that section operates as a society within the club; seniors who are not members of the society cannot enter.