Roll up GP card submtting alongside team event

[NearHull]

What happens when someone does not want to throw in a £1, doesn’t playing for money have to be optional.

Refusal hasn’t occurred in my 8 years at the club, I suppose peer pressure would start with some jocular jibes but then move to move pointed comments.

 

[NearHull]

Part of this disagreement between formmers stems from the ‘definition’ of Roll Up. It can mean many things to players, often swayed by their own personal experiences of Roll Ups at their clubs. If we all hold that thought, I don’t think there would be the diametrically held views being expressed on here.

 

[3 jabber]

You seem determined to claim that because it's informal the rules of handicapping can just be ignored. If you're putting a GP card in, you must follow the rules of golf and the rules of handicapping.
It's hardly the crime of the century, but you must now realise that you're technically breaking the rules. After all, the applicable rule has been quoted several times.
Why anyone equates a round that follows the rules to a round that is 'no fun' is beyond me; but I do see that point of view regularly (usually from Americans on Facebook).
Maybe someone should start a new thread called 'Rules that I break knowingly because I don't agree with them'.

The rules of golf and the rules of handicapping are two different things. And as I stated before, rollups are not covered by any conditions of competition. And as I have also stated before, if playing in a competition then it is clear that you cannot put a card in, nobody is disputing that. My club doesn't have boards for rollups

 

[3 jabber]

It's simple - just say that you are playing individual stroke play and follow the Rules of golf. What happens to the scores after the round doesn't matter - they can be used to make up a team score.

Good point. I've seen groups that play blind pairs or blind teams that draw cards after the round to form team scores.

 

[LincolnShep]

The rules of golf and the rules of handicapping are two different things. And as I stated before, rollups are not covered by any conditions of competition. And as I have also stated before, if playing in a competition then it is clear that you cannot put a card in, nobody is disputing that. My club doesn't have boards for rollups

I give up.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I give up.

You've tried your best, as has @D-S . Time to walk away and hold your head up high

 

[rulefan]

The rules of golf and the rules of handicapping are two different things. And as I stated before, rollups are not covered by any conditions of competition. And as I have also stated before, if playing in a competition then it is clear that you cannot put a card in, nobody is disputing that. My club doesn't have boards for rollups

What is a competition? Are rollups competitions? If not how do they differ from the dictionary definition? How do you define a competition?

 

[3 jabber]

What is a competition? Are rollups competitions? If not how do they differ from the dictionary definition? How do you define a competition?

In golfing terms I would suggest something that is covered by the competition handbook. It's quite clear in my club what is considered a competition

 

[Length]

It's simple - just say that you are playing individual stroke play and follow the Rules of golf. What happens to the scores after the round doesn't matter - they can be used to make up a team score.

If the players know a team score is to be made up after the round for a prize, then they know they are playing in a team event during the round. So not acceptable to submit scores.

 

[Length]

Good point. I've seen groups that play blind pairs or blind teams that draw cards after the round to form team scores.

Yes, that is exactly what to do just the same with the good old Congu

 

[Length]

I believe this scenario is described by option 2 copied from post #14
The difference is between:

1. playing in an individual event, which is acceptable for handicapping, with scores being taken for use in a team
2. playing in a team event, and wanting to use the individual scores for handicapping, which is not allowed

It now seems clear to me. As the only way you could play a qualifying round and have a team event prize under CONGU was to make sure all team members are not playing together. I don’t think anything has changed under the WHS.

 

[rulefan]

In golfing terms I would suggest something that is covered by the competition handbook. It's quite clear in my club what is considered a competition

Exactly what handbook do you mean? There is no definition of a competition in any Rules or Handicapping book. What is your club's definition? Is the same in all clubs?

Just what do you think the EG statement means?
There is nothing to indicate rollups are excluded.

 

[3 jabber]

Exactly what handbook do you mean? There is no definition of a competition in any Rules or Handicapping book. What is your club's definition? Is the same in all clubs?

Just what do you think the EG statement means?
There is nothing to indicate rollups are excluded.

Do you have an issue with a bunch of mates having fun for a couple of quid and submitting cards at the same time?

 

[rulefan]

Do you have an issue with a bunch of mates having fun for a couple of quid and submitting cards at the same time?

Only that England Golf have made a clear ruling not permitting individual scores to be returned.
But I am interested in the process. Do all players pre-declare? If a player picks up on a number of holes do they still return their score?

There are a couple or so rollups in my club who play 2/3 or 3/4 for a small amount of cash but they do not return GP scores. The groups met informally and decided there were too many opportunities to build a handicap.

 

[3 jabber]

One thing of interest to me highlighted by this thread. If I play in a rollup which WHS consider to be a competition and I submit a card, is that card considered a competition card or general play card for entry to elite events?

 

[D-S]

The advice from EG is that if you are organising a regular weekly competition (with an entrance fee and prizes awarded etc.) even though it is just a roll up it would be better if this were run through the club’s ISV which would make the scores competition scores, as long as the golf is played in an individual strokeplay format. However if there are barriers to this (such as administrative issues for the club) then GP scores are ok. The advice is to use the EG App for GP scores as there are more security features and they are easier for committees to scrutinise.
If a 2 or more mates have a normal game every now again and they wish to put a card in via the App, as long as it is played in an individual strokeplay format, then any card put in is simply a GP score.

 

[Length]

I give you a Scenario I have asked my County who say they will get a reply officially from EG:

A Roll organised by members, playing stableford, with about 20 to 30 playing each week.

• Played on a measured course
• Tee times are allocated by the club
• Records of scores and prizes are kept
• £3 per person, £2 towards individual payout prizes, £1 for a team payout prizes
• Teams play together during the round
• Played in teams of 4, all scores counting for prizes
• Teams of 3 made up to a 4 by having a random score drawn from one player after the event.
• Not compulsory to submit GP cards.
• Some players submit GP cards and do putt out.
• Some players do not submit GP cards and have small gimmes.
• Conforming to rules, not mandatory to play for money
• No Terms written or on show to players

Now, I would be uncomfortable knowing I was in a team competing for prizes when I was submitting a GP card. So, I only put £2 in for the individual event.

But, during the round I am also uncomfortable to be playing in a group with members that are playing in the team event.

Surely, I should not be put in that situation.

 

[Viewer]

I give you a Scenario I have asked my County who say they will get a reply officially from EG:

A Roll organised by members, playing stableford, with about 20 to 30 playing each week.

• Played on a measured course
• Tee times are allocated by the club
• Records of scores and prizes are kept
• £3 per person, £2 towards individual payout prizes, £1 for a team payout prizes
• Teams play together during the round
• Played in teams of 4, all scores counting for prizes
• Teams of 3 made up to a 4 by having a random score drawn from one player after the event.
• Not compulsory to submit GP cards.
• Some players submit GP cards and do putt out.
• Some players do not submit GP cards and have small gimmes.
• Conforming to rules, not mandatory to play for money
• No Terms written or on show to players

Now, I would be uncomfortable knowing I was in a team competing for prizes when I was submitting a GP card. So, I only put £2 in for the individual event.

But, during the round I am also uncomfortable to be playing in a group with members that are playing in the team event.

Surely, I should not be put in that situation.

Basically just an individual competition

 

[woofers]

If you’re playing as a team, giving advice to each other, (line of putt, club selection, etc) then you’re not playing to the rules of golf for individual play which is the only format allowed for a General Play score to be valid.

 

[rulefan]

Basically just an individual competition

If you’re playing as a team, giving advice to each other, (line of putt, club selection, etc) then you’re not playing to the rules of golf for individual play which is the only format allowed for a General Play score to be valid.

As I understand the post, these two are exactly why it has been referred via the County to EG.