Roll up GP card submtting alongside team event

[Length]

To clarify the situation regarding this Roll up with stableford format:

Played in teams of 3, all scores counting for best team prizes.
Not compulsory to submit GP cards.
Some players submitting GP cards and putting out.
Other players not submitting GP cards and having small gimmes.

What advice would a County give regarding the validity of the GP cards submitted?

 

[D-S]

To clarify the situation regarding this Roll up with stableford format:

Played in teams of 3, all scores counting for best team prizes.
Not compulsory to submit GP cards.
Some players submitting GP cards and putting out.
Other players not submitting GP cards and having small gimmes.

What advice would a County give regarding the validity of the GP cards submitted?

I believe this scenario is described by option 2 copied from post #14
The difference is between:

1. playing in an individual event, which is acceptable for handicapping, with scores being taken for use in a team
2. playing in a team event, and wanting to use the individual scores for handicapping, which is not allowed

 

[3 jabber]

Since when has a rollup been a formal competition? Playing in a rollup (bunch of mates putting a couple of quid in) it is perfectly acceptable to enter a card for handicap purposes assuming it is played to the rules of golf.

 

[wjemather]

Since when has a rollup been a formal competition? Playing in a rollup (bunch of mates putting a couple of quid in) it is perfectly acceptable to enter a card for handicap purposes assuming it is played to the rules of golf.

"Roll-up" in this context refers to the means of entry to the formal competition, i.e. roll-up and enter on the day, as opposed to entry in advance.

Almost all of our weekend club competitions are roll-up entry.

 

[LincolnShep]

Since when has a rollup been a formal competition? Playing in a rollup (bunch of mates putting a couple of quid in) it is perfectly acceptable to enter a card for handicap purposes assuming it is played to the rules of golf.

It is not "perfectly acceptable" if they're playing a team format - which the OP says they do.

 

[Length]

Today I’ll be playing in our club organised Roll Up, random draw for playing partners. Most of us will enter the separate Club organised Individual Stableford Competition. At the end of the competition, after submitting our cards, we meet up and throw in a £1 for a team prize. The winning team is the group with the highest average score. It allows us the freedom to turn up or not, play in an Acceptable Format for submissions, play with different partners and provide a side bet, which is not about the money, but about ‘bragging rights’.

The Roll Up is used by the Club to introduce new members which adds to the experience - in a good way.

What happens when someone does not want to throw in a £1, doesn’t playing for money have to be optional.

 

[3 jabber]

It is not "perfectly acceptable" if they're playing a team format - which the OP says they do.

The OP is referring specifically to a 'roll up' which is NOT a formal club competition so GP scores are perfectly acceptable. It is a bunch of mates putting a couple of quid in. Like I said, as long as they are playing to the rules they are fine.

 

[rulefan]

The OP is referring specifically to a 'roll up' which is NOT a formal club competition so GP scores are perfectly acceptable. It is a bunch of mates putting a couple of quid in. Like I said, as long as they are playing to the rules they are fine.

If they are playing as teams, they are not fine.

• Scores from team events (best 2 of 4 or best 3 of 3 for example) are not acceptable for handicap purposes. In addition, players may not choose to submit a general play score whilst playing in a team event.
England Golf 26 February 2025

 

[3 jabber]

If they are playing as teams, they are not fine.

• Scores from team events (best 2 of 4 or best 3 of 3 for example) are not acceptable for handicap purposes. In addition, players may not choose to submit a general play score whilst playing in a team event.
England Golf 26 February 2025

I agree in a competition but the OP is talking about a rollup.

 

[LincolnShep]

I agree in a competition but the OP is talking about a rollup.

Whether the comp is organised by the club or the participants makes no difference. Team golf is not permitted for general play cards. At all.

 

[rulefan]

I agree in a competition but the OP is talking about a rollup.

As neither the RoG nor the RoH define 'Competition' please explain why does a rollup not satisfy these dictionary definitions?

Competition
An organized event in which people try to win a prize by being the best, fastest, etc.
An activity done by a number of people or organizations, each of which is trying to do better than all of the others.
Team
a number of people who act together as a group, either in a sport or in order to achieve something:

 

[3 jabber]

As neither the RoG nor the RoH define 'Competition' please explain why does a rollup not satisfy these dictionary definitions?

Competition
An organized event in which people try to win a prize by being the best, fastest, etc.
An activity done by a number of people or organizations, each of which is trying to do better than all of the others.
Team
a number of people who act together as a group, either in a sport or in order to achieve something:

Excellent bit of pedantry there and you know it. A rollup is an informal gathering of golfers, are your rollups listed in your clubs list of annual competitions? Are the results looked at by your handicap and competitions committee? Going by your definition above, if you are playing a match for the beers with your 3 mates does this mean you can't submit a card because it is a competition? What about all the people that say a card should be submitted EVERY time you play, can't do that if playing in a pairs game or 4 man 'team' in the midweek rollup according to your definition. There is a clear difference between a formal competition and a knockabout with your mates.

 

[D-S]

Excellent bit of pedantry there and you know it. A rollup is an informal gathering of golfers, are your rollups listed in your clubs list of annual competitions? Are the results looked at by your handicap and competitions committee? Going by your definition above, if you are playing a match for the beers with your 3 mates does this mean you can't submit a card because it is a competition? What about all the people that say a card should be submitted EVERY time you play, can't do that if playing in a pairs game or 4 man 'team' in the midweek rollup according to your definition. There is a clear difference between a formal competition and a knockabout with your mates.

The question is “Are you playing an individual singles strokeplay format?” If the answer is no, we’re playing a team game, then you can’t submit it. If the answer is yes then you can. It’s irrelevant who organises it.
Nobody in any form of authority says a card should be submitted every time.

 

[3 jabber]

The question is “Are you playing an individual singles strokeplay format?” If the answer is no, we’re playing a team game, then you can’t submit it. If the answer is yes then you can. It’s irrelevant who organises it.
Nobody in any form of authority says a card should be submitted every time.

It's a rollup....you know, bunch of mates having a laugh? If it's a formal competition then sure you can't put a card in but if you read the OP he clearly says 'rollup'

 

[D-S]

It's a rollup....you know, bunch of mates having a laugh? If it's a formal competition then sure you can't put a card in but if you read the OP he clearly says 'rollup'

Just to be as clear as it is possible to be; this is the from EG on players responsibilities for submission of scores for handicap purposes (note I have made the relevant part in bold and underlined):-

In summary, golfers are required to:


• Declare their intent to submit a score via the England Golf app, or via the


relevant process defined at the club where the round will be played.


• Be in the company of at least one other person, who can act as a


marker/attester (subject to satisfying other Rules of Golf requirements).


• Always follow the Rules of Golf.


• Play over a tee set with a current Course Rating™ and Slope Rating™


,


where length and normal playing difficulty is maintained and consistent.


• Scores must be pre-registered on the day of play prior to the round, by the


means established by the Handicap Committee.


• In an authorised format of play (individual formats only) over a minimum


number of holes.

 

[rulie]

It's simple - just say that you are playing individual stroke play and follow the Rules of golf. What happens to the scores after the round doesn't matter - they can be used to make up a team score.

 

[3 jabber]

Just to be as clear as it is possible to be; this is the from EG on players responsibilities for submission of scores for handicap purposes (note I have made the relevant part in bold and underlined):-

In summary, golfers are required to:


• Declare their intent to submit a score via the England Golf app, or via the


relevant process defined at the club where the round will be played.


• Be in the company of at least one other person, who can act as a


marker/attester (subject to satisfying other Rules of Golf requirements).


• Always follow the Rules of Golf.


• Play over a tee set with a current Course Rating™ and Slope Rating™


,


where length and normal playing difficulty is maintained and consistent.


• Scores must be pre-registered on the day of play prior to the round, by the


means established by the Handicap Committee.


• In an authorised format of play (individual formats only) over a minimum


number of holes.

I've corrected that for you. I've never seen 'rollup' as an authorised format of play.

In the context of golf, a "rollup" is a casual, social golf event where players can simply arrive and play without a pre-booked tee time, often with random pairings and flexible formats.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Spontaneous and Social:
  Rollups are designed for golfers who want to play without the formality of booking a tee time in advance.
  
  
• Random Pairings:
  Players are typically grouped randomly, often through a draw, which allows golfers to meet and play with a variety of people.
  
  
• Flexible Formats:
  Rollups often have adaptable structures, making them suitable for golfers with varying schedules and skill levels.
  
  
• No Handicap Required:
  Many rollups are open to all members, regardless of their handicap.
  
  
• Focus on Fun:
  The emphasis is on enjoying the game and socializing, rather than strict competition.
  
  
• Examples:
  Some clubs have regular rollups at specific times during the week or weekend, such as morning or afternoon rollups.
  
  
• Integration and Networking:
  Rollups are a great way for new members to integrate into the club and for existing members to meet new people.
  
  
• Examples of Rollup Names:
  Some clubs have different names for their rollups, such as "Wednesday Roll-up," "Friday Club," or "Saturday Stableford Society".

 

[D-S]

Again, and for the last time, it is not who or how the game is organised. It is the format you play the golf in.
If you are playing an individual strokeplay format of golf then the score is acceptable, if are playing in any other format (irrespective if it is organised by the USGA, LPGA, EG, Your Club, Your County, Your Mates, A regular bunch at the club or by People you have met on a golf forum) it is not acceptable.

 

[3 jabber]

Again, and for the last time, it is not who or how the game is organised. It is the format you play the golf in.
If you are playing an individual strokeplay format of golf then the score is acceptable, if are playing in any other format (irrespective if it is organised by the USGA, LPGA, EG, Your Club, Your County, Your Mates, People you have met on a golf forum) it is not acceptable.

Again and for the last time it is an INFORMAL ROLLUP. You know, the sort of thing people don't take seriously it's just for fun with their mates? We must have a game sometime, it would be fun!

 

[LincolnShep]

Again and for the last time it is an INFORMAL ROLLUP. You know, the sort of thing people don't take seriously it's just for fun with their mates? We must have a game sometime, it would be fun!

You seem determined to claim that because it's informal the rules of handicapping can just be ignored. If you're putting a GP card in, you must follow the rules of golf and the rules of handicapping.
It's hardly the crime of the century, but you must now realise that you're technically breaking the rules. After all, the applicable rule has been quoted several times.
Why anyone equates a round that follows the rules to a round that is 'no fun' is beyond me; but I do see that point of view regularly (usually from Americans on Facebook).
Maybe someone should start a new thread called 'Rules that I break knowingly because I don't agree with them'.