Robin Matthews-Williams

[tugglesf239]

Fist magnet

 

[Parsaregood]

Think you are a bit wide of the mark there, the best players don't automatically make the best coaches. I really think a handicap has no bearing on a coach, if you can pass the teaching tests and prove you have the depth of knowledge to teach, what has your golf ability got to do with it? You may be physically impaired but have an amazing eye for teaching and never get the chance because you can't play sub 75 golf.

Really disagree with you, i agree hcap has no bearing on ability to understand swing concepts and communication skills, though youd really ideally want people who have played high level amateur golf have experience in playing at a good level and also have good oratory skills. More often than not, very good golfers will have had a lot of lessons off quite a few people so that's a lot of info and thought in itself, there are low guys who are self taught and don't really have any thought on mechanics but just get it round, they can turn pro but probably not going to make the best teachers as they can't teach the method they use. I got down to 2 without taking a lesson but had to start taking lessons to get better, i didn't really have a clue about the swing just used to play by feel and by changing setup

 

[Grant85]

Really disagree with you, i agree hcap has no bearing on ability to understand swing concepts and communication skills, though youd really ideally want people who have played high level amateur golf have experience in playing at a good level and also have good oratory skills. More often than not, very good golfers will have had a lot of lessons off quite a few people so that's a lot of info and thought in itself, there are low guys who are self taught and don't really have any thought on mechanics but just get it round, they can turn pro but probably not going to make the best teachers as they can't teach the method they use. I got down to 2 without taking a lesson but had to start taking lessons to get better, i didn't really have a clue about the swing just used to play by feel and by changing setup

I appreciate that most teaching pros have been competent players and played competitive golf. I think the minimum handicap to turn ‘pro’ and sit your exams is 4, but may be reduced now.

However personally wouldn’t place a great deal of emphasis on someone’s playing prowess or golfing ability as a teaching pro. They’ve obviously met the requirements to become a pro, but it’s far more important that they are good teachers, listeners and communicators, that they understand swing fundamentals as well as chipping and putting mechanics.

At the end of the day, if a pro was really good at golf, then he wouldn’t be teaching 18 handicappers & selling mars bars. Pros generally have had a journey before they get into teaching, have had a few battle scars and good teaching pros will play very little competitive golf.

 

[Capella]

YouTube kept suggesting his videos to me for a while (and also, he kind of attacked Rob McGarr, another YouTuber, who I really like), so I did try to watch a few of his videos to see what he was all about. It is rare that I give thumbs down on YouTube (because I think every creative effort should be applauded, usually), but this guy really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm German, we are famous for using foul language and cursing, and I normally really don't mind (actually, I think it is even kind of charming when my 73 year old mum suddenly bursts out in a tirade of four letter words in the middle of a round), but this guy really goes a bit inflationary with the language. He sounds like Eddie Murphy on a bad day. Maybe I'm just too old to fall into his target group.

 

[Parsaregood]

I appreciate that most teaching pros have been competent players and played competitive golf. I think the minimum handicap to turn ‘pro’ and sit your exams is 4, but may be reduced now.

However personally wouldn’t place a great deal of emphasis on someone’s playing prowess or golfing ability as a teaching pro. They’ve obviously met the requirements to become a pro, but it’s far more important that they are good teachers, listeners and communicators, that they understand swing fundamentals as well as chipping and putting mechanics.

At the end of the day, if a pro was really good at golf, then he wouldn’t be teaching 18 handicappers & selling mars bars. Pros generally have had a journey before they get into teaching, have had a few battle scars and good teaching pros will play very little competitive golf.

You can do the pga training off a 4.4 hcap which is a joke if you ask me, it should be 2.4 and you should have played to that for a minimum number of hcap qualifying events. The pga pro is being devalued by too many guys who arnt very good, and the fact people call a lot of them mars bar sellers says it all really. The PGA may just be worried the numbers wouldn't be there if the hcap was reduced, it would however bring a bit of value back by making it a bit more testing. Also you wouldn't get numpties like this Robin Mathew guy who can't break 80, which would be a bonus

 

[Tiger man]

Really disagree with you, i agree hcap has no bearing on ability to understand swing concepts and communication skills, though youd really ideally want people who have played high level amateur golf have experience in playing at a good level and also have good oratory skills. More often than not, very good golfers will have had a lot of lessons off quite a few people so that's a lot of info and thought in itself, there are low guys who are self taught and don't really have any thought on mechanics but just get it round, they can turn pro but probably not going to make the best teachers as they can't teach the method they use. I got down to 2 without taking a lesson but had to start taking lessons to get better, i didn't really have a clue about the swing just used to play by feel and by changing setup

But getting to a low handicap has a lot to it, natural physical abilities, time, often opportunities to receive good coaching as a youth so parents wallet, mental strength under pressure, may be as thick as two short planks and only know their own swing. Ideally the coach would have been a good player for peace of mind that he/she knows what they are doing but plenty of top coaches are not the best players.

 

[Grant85]

You can do the pga training off a 4.4 hcap which is a joke if you ask me, it should be 2.4 and you should have played to that for a minimum number of hcap qualifying events. The pga pro is being devalued by too many guys who arnt very good, and the fact people call a lot of them mars bar sellers says it all really. The PGA may just be worried the numbers wouldn't be there if the hcap was reduced, it would however bring a bit of value back by making it a bit more testing. Also you wouldn't get numpties like this Robin Mathew guy who can't break 80, which would be a bonus

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Look at football, top coaches like Mourinho and Wenger didn’t play pro football. And others like Jurgen Klopp and Neil Warnock weren’t exactly household names as players. All successful coaches with long careers as manager.

Teaching elite sport is totally different from playing elite sport and I don’t think any other sport places requirements on it’s coaches that they have to have played or competed to a certain level.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

YouTube kept suggesting his videos to me for a while (and also, he kind of attacked Rob McGarr, another YouTuber, who I really like), so I did try to watch a few of his videos to see what he was all about.

I thought he was totally out of order with his tirade at Rob. Like you I watched a couple out of interest but I really can't find anything I enjoyed and his delivery left me cold. However he's doing well enough on youtube so must be doing something right for the wider viewing public

 

[Parsaregood]

But getting to a low handicap has a lot to it, natural physical abilities, time, often opportunities to receive good coaching as a youth so parents wallet, mental strength under pressure, may be as thick as two short planks and only know their own swing. Ideally the coach would have been a good player for peace of mind that he/she knows what they are doing but plenty of top coaches are not the best players.

A bit like saying just let anybody willing to learn the retail side and do a few coaching courses become a pga pro, would you really have that much confidence taking lessons off someone you know wasn't all that competent as a player ? I wouldn't

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Look at football, top coaches like Mourinho and Wenger didn’t play pro football. And others like Jurgen Klopp and Neil Warnock weren’t exactly household names as players. All successful coaches with long careers as manager.

Teaching elite sport is totally different from playing elite sport and I don’t think any other sport places requirements on it’s coaches that they have to have played or competed to a certain level.

I am with you. A lot of good teaching pros never made it as top player. The PGA exams are far more than playing to a good level but the person is still required to meet a set level of performance as part of the qualification

 

[Parsaregood]

I am with you. A lot of good teaching pros never made it as top player. The PGA exams are far more than playing to a good level but the person is still required to meet a set level of performance as part of the qualification

If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants

 

[Tiger man]

A bit like saying just let anybody willing to learn the retail side and do a few coaching courses become a pga pro, would you really have that much confidence taking lessons off someone you know wasn't all that competent as a player ? I wouldn't

I can totally understand your point of view and respect that, however I would let their reputation as a coach, not as a player, be my main criteria.

 

[Jacko_G]

If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants

Can I ask who you go to for lessons, why and what your thought process was?

Just curious

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants

Bottom line is they all have to meet a set requirement in all aspects of the curriculum to pass. It's like any exam though, you set a pass mark at some point. How many actually take the PGA course per year? I'd say not that many, especially when you look at the number of vacancies at clubs around the country. I know a number of pros we've had at my club over the years that would never have made money playing, but have focused on developing a reputation as a good teaching pro and being the best teachers they can be. For my tuppence worth, as long as they are PGA qualified and are able to teach me in a way I understand, explain why they are making the changes and we have a two way rapport, and more importantly I can see progress in my game that's all I look for

 

[Parsaregood]

Can I ask who you go to for lessons, why and what your thought process was?

Just curious[/QUOTE

I got to Alan White over at lanark, hes the chairman of the PGA of GB&I . Ended up going to him after feeling like the guy i was going to wasnt really offering me much in the way of useful feedback anymore, i spoke to a good friend of mines about it and he suggested Alan so off I went

 

[Homer]

If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants

What’s the playability test?

 

[Parsaregood]

What’s the playability test?

you play a round of golf to a set 'standard' which isn't all that high

 

[Homer]

you play a round of golf to a set 'standard' which isn't all that high

What’s the standard?

 

[Parsaregood]

It's all on the pga website if you want to know all the details

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Bottom line is they all have to meet a set requirement in all aspects of the curriculum to pass. It's like any exam though, you set a pass mark at some point. How many actually take the PGA course per year? I'd say not that many, especially when you look at the number of vacancies at clubs around the country. I know a number of pros we've had at my club over the years that would never have made money playing, but have focused on developing a reputation as a good teaching pro and being the best teachers they can be. For my tuppence worth, as long as they are PGA qualified and are able to teach me in a way I understand, explain why they are making the changes and we have a two way rapport, and more importantly I can see progress in my game that's all I look for

Plenty of guys knocking about that have never made any money playing that can still knock it round 5 or 6 under par.

I get the point they don't necessarily have to be a fantastic player to be a good coach but I don't want someone showing me how to hit a shot thats a lesser player than me.