Relief from Internal Hedge

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A new hedge has been planted down part of the right hand side of one of our holes. There is maybe 5yds of light rough between the fairway and the hedge and so I don’t have to be far offline to be tangling with the hedge. The hedge has many staked young hedging shrubs. If my ball ends up in or the other side of the hedge from the fairway and my swing is impeded by a staked shrub (if my ball is in the hedge it will 100% be impeded by a staked shrub) can I take relief the fairway side of the hedge if my NPR is that side. If I can then I will have a clear stance, swing and shot. If I can’t I’ve got big problems. I can’t see why I can’t take great advantage of free relief and NPR rules in this scenario.

 

[nickjdavis]

The NPR is the NPR....take your relief accordingly...if it happens to be on the fairway side of the hedge that is your good luck.

Out of interest....what is on the other side of the hedge?

 

[jim8flog]

Ditto to nickjdavis.

NPR is exactly that. It is only when there are two points that are exactly equidistant can you choose which point to use.

 

[rulefan]

A new hedge has been planted down part of the right hand side of one of our holes. There is maybe 5yds of light rough between the fairway and the hedge and so I don’t have to be far offline to be tangling with the hedge. The hedge has many staked young hedging shrubs. If my ball ends up in or the other side of the hedge from the fairway and my swing is impeded by a staked shrub (if my ball is in the hedge it will 100% be impeded by a staked shrub) can I take relief the fairway side of the hedge if my NPR is that side. If I can then I will have a clear stance, swing and shot. If I can’t I’ve got big problems. I can’t see why I can’t take great advantage of free relief and NPR rules in this scenario.

Are you left or right handed? Is there any Local Rule clarifying the status of the hedge or other staked trees or bushes?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Are you left or right handed? Is there any Local Rule clarifying the status of the hedge or other staked trees or bushes?

I am right handed. There is nothing in the clubs LRs on the card specific to the hedge. On the fairway side of the hedge there is 3-5m of cut rough and then the fairway. On the ‘far’ side of the hedge there is immediately an access track that leads to our 10th tee (I believe the hedge would have been planted to protect players walking to the 10th), beyond the track is a wild verge and then the ‘boundary’ hedge of the clubs land.

 

[jim8flog]

If the track is artificially surfaced or has been declared an Obstruction it would be worth suggesting to your Committee that they use a model local rule from

F-3 Ground Under Repair Treated as Part of Nearby Obstruction

Purpose. Ground under repair may be located right next to an immovable obstruction. For example, when a flower bed that the Committee has declared to be ground under repair is surrounded by an artificially-surfaced cart path or when cart traffic causes damage next to a cart path.

This can lead to complicated relief situations. After taking relief from one condition, a player may find that there is now interference by the other condition; and after taking relief from that other condition, the player may find that the first condition once again interferes.

To allow the player to take relief in one step, the Committee can choose to treat both conditions as a single abnormal course condition. When this is done, the areas of ground under repair should either be connected to the immovable obstruction by white lines or should be defined in some other clear way.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I am right handed. There is nothing in the clubs LRs on the card specific to the hedge. On the fairway side of the hedge there is 3-5m of cut rough and then the fairway. On the ‘far’ side of the hedge there is immediately an access track that leads to our 10th tee (I believe the hedge would have been planted to protect players walking to the 10th), beyond the track is a wild verge and then the ‘boundary’ hedge of the clubs land.

Do they have a "staked trees" local rule on the card? Or have they enacted a new local rule posted in the clubhouse to cover this hedge? Otherwise I can't see there being any free relief

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I read the title and my mind boggled
Wondered where you had a hedge growing….. then I read the first post ?

I’d say nearest point of relief no nearer the hole

 

[rulefan]

I am right handed. There is nothing in the clubs LRs on the card specific to the hedge. On the fairway side of the hedge there is 3-5m of cut rough and then the fairway. On the ‘far’ side of the hedge there is immediately an access track that leads to our 10th tee (I believe the hedge would have been planted to protect players walking to the 10th), beyond the track is a wild verge and then the ‘boundary’ hedge of the clubs land.

Is there any LR about staked trees/bushes anywhere on the course? If not, no free relief.

 

[rulie]

Is there any LR about staked trees/bushes anywhere on the course? If not, no free relief.

Can always get relief from the stakes, they are obstructions - either movable or immovable.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Seems like the hedge is on the course and we get relief from staked trees in the hedge, and so I can be through and on the ‘wrong’ side of that hedge with absolutely no shot, but if my swing is impeded by a stake in the hedge then my NPR will be the ‘right’ side of the hedge and all will be well. Sorted!

Was asking, and I asked the club, as we are having the England U18 champs this week and if it wasn’t clear to me and the rest of my group...however I’ve been reminded that England Golf will have plenty of rules officials on the course to advise players in such circumstances.

Moral as always. KTR..UTR. Know The Rules...Use the Rules. ??

 

[rulie]

Seems like the hedge is on the course and we get relief from staked trees in the hedge, and so I can be through and on the ‘wrong’ side of that hedge with absolutely no shot, but if my swing is impeded by a stake in the hedge then my NPR will be the ‘right’ side of the hedge and all will be well. Sorted!

Was asking, and I asked the club, as we are having the England U18 champs this week and if it wasn’t clear to me and the rest of my group...however I’ve been reminded that England Golf will have plenty of rules officials on the course to advise players in such circumstances.

Moral as always. KTR..UTR. Know The Rules...Use the Rules. ??

I'm quite certain that the EG referees will sort it out in the Local Rules that they publish for that event. The club would be wise to review the Local Rules that are used for the event and consider them for their own use! That is one of the benefits of hosting such events. The club and members should also note what the EG referees identify as abnormal course conditions and note their hole locations for future use.

 

[salfordlad]

Seems like the hedge is on the course and we get relief from staked trees in the hedge, and so I can be through and on the ‘wrong’ side of that hedge with absolutely no shot, but if my swing is impeded by a stake in the hedge then my NPR will be the ‘right’ side of the hedge and all will be well. Sorted!

Was asking, and I asked the club, as we are having the England U18 champs this week and if it wasn’t clear to me and the rest of my group...however I’ve been reminded that England Golf will have plenty of rules officials on the course to advise players in such circumstances.

Moral as always. KTR..UTR. Know The Rules...Use the Rules. ??

This bolded language is not necessarily the case. If the club has failed to local rule the hedge (as you indicate in #5 above), the white stakes are the only source of relief. It is as though the hedge does not exist at all from a relief perspective. So if your ball is right of the stake line (and potentially also the hedge) but with interference with a stake, it is possible that the Nearest Point of Complete Relief (anchor for the relief area) could be left of the hedge line or precisely in the middle of the hedge line for a right handed golfer. That is, there is no certainty that the NPCR is right of the hedge line. Step 1 is carefully find the NPCR/reference point and step 2 mark out your relief area. Because the relief entitlement links only to the (intermittent) white stakes and not the hedge, that relief area could encompass areas left of, in the middle of or right of the hedge line.
Another important moral is the Committee needs to mark the course appropriately and it seems that is not yet happening. The problem is not one for the U/18s arriving, they will come with expertise that will fix it for them, the problem is for the regular club players if the Committee doesn't sort it out for the future.

 

[rulefan]

Seems like the hedge is on the course and we get relief from staked trees in the hedge, and so I can be through and on the ‘wrong’ side of that hedge with absolutely no shot, but if my swing is impeded by a stake in the hedge then my NPR will be the ‘right’ side of the hedge and all will be well. Sorted!

Was asking, and I asked the club, as we are having the England U18 champs this week and if it wasn’t clear to me and the rest of my group...however I’ve been reminded that England Golf will have plenty of rules officials on the course to advise players in such circumstances.

Moral as always. KTR..UTR. Know The Rules...Use the Rules. ??

I would be surprised if EG haven't already done a course inspection and determined their course of action.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would be surprised if EG haven't already done a course inspection and determined their course of action.

EG have been working with the club for some time - it is their inaugural mixed gender event and so will want to make sure we have got things just right. As there is live streaming through our Facebook page and YouTube site, we might be able to see the hedge at some point ?

Practice day today will I am sure pick up if there are still questions to be answered about the course ? Went out for a few holes yesterday evening and course is in superb condition and looks just perfect. Hoping for decent weather now. But as a club we can only do what we can do...?

 

[backwoodsman]

I think I may be missing something?

The OP has said there is nothing in the clubs local rules that specifically refers to the hedge - but I'm not clear if they have a local rule that gives relief from staked trees? (ie generally across the course rather than just for the hedge).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think I may be missing something?

The OP has said there is nothing in the clubs local rules that specifically refers to the hedge - but I'm not clear if they have a local rule that gives relief from staked trees? (ie generally across the course rather than just for the hedge).

Across the course relief is given from stakes supporting young trees, and part of the hedge is staked. Though I thought that relief from such stakes was covered by the rules without need of a LR.

There is no LR that defines the hedge as the course boundary as that is what would determine if a ball the wrong side of the hedge was oob or not - and so whether relief from a stake was relevant or not. If the hedge was not the boundary, then NPR from a stake could be the ‘right’, as in the fairway, side of the hedge.

 

[Colin L]

Across the course relief is given from stakes supporting young trees, and part of the hedge is staked. Though I thought that relief from such stakes was covered by the rules without need of a LR.

There is no LR that defines the hedge as the course boundary as that is what would determine if a ball the wrong side of the hedge was oob or not - and so whether relief from a stake was relevant or not. If the hedge was not the boundary, then NPR from a stake could be the ‘right’, as in the fairway, side of the hedge.

There is a difference in entitlement to relief and where the NPCR is likely to be between a local rule giving relief from a staked tree and Rule 15 giving relief from a stake as an immovable obstruction.

 

[bobmac]

As a young plant/hedge, it needs protection, therefor if it's staked, free drop NPR.
I don't see any issue

 

[rulefan]

As a young plant/hedge, it needs protection, therefor if it's staked, free drop NPR.
I don't see any issue

There is an issue if there is no Local Rule in force.