Daft Question I Just Remembered

[Orikoru]

I just remembered a conversation I had during my weekend round that threw up a potentially daft question but here goes. Our course neighbours another course, so if you go over the boundary it's out of bounds. But what if someone on the neighbouring course threw it back over the hedge so it landed in play? Do you take this wonderful gift and continue to play your second shot? My guess is if you found the ball there incidentally, i.e. you had no idea how it stayed in bounds but assume it hit a tree or something, you would obviously play it; but if you visibly saw it come flying over the hedge like 30 seconds after you hit it then that's not allowed. But I really don't know? This must have happened at some point in history.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

My initial thought is an outside influence, play it as it lies,
But what do I know ?

 

[IanM]

What if they key your Pro V, but toss back a TopFlite?

 

[Colin L]

I just remembered a conversation I had during my weekend round that threw up a potentially daft question but here goes. Our course neighbours another course, so if you go over the boundary it's out of bounds. But what if someone on the neighbouring course threw it back over the hedge so it landed in play? Do you take this wonderful gift and continue to play your second shot? My guess is if you found the ball there incidentally, i.e. you had no idea how it stayed in bounds but assume it hit a tree or something, you would obviously play it; but if you visibly saw it come flying over the hedge like 30 seconds after you hit it then that's not allowed. But I really don't know? This must have happened at some point in history.

If the person on the other course throws your ball back, that ball was at rest out of bounds and is therefore out of play and a wrong ball. If the ball hits him and bounces back on to your course, it is in play.

 

[Orikoru]

If the person on the other course throws your ball back, that ball was at rest out of bounds and is therefore out of play and a wrong ball. If the ball hits him and bounces back on to your course, it is in play.

What if he heard the fore shout, catches it, and then throws it back over?

 

[Colin L]

What if he heard the fore shout, catches it, and then throws it back over?

As I said, if he throws it back over the boundary, the ball must have been at rest out of bounds.

To confirm your other point, if you don't know what has happened and just find your ball on the course, you would carry on.

 

[Imurg]

What if he heard the fore shout, catches it, and then throws it back over?

Then he's an idiot and shouldn't be anywhere near a golf course......

 

[rulefan]

Then he's an idiot and shouldn't be anywhere near a golf course......

Perhaps he simply thought you would like your ball back as you had just paid a fortune for it. And that you knew the rule.

 

[Steven Rules]

What if he heard the fore shout, catches it, and then throws it back over?

Colin is right....naturally.

For the ball at rest that was picked up and thrown back, the relevant Rule is 9.6:

If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence (including another player in stroke play or another ball) lifted or moved a player’s ball at rest there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated) (see Rule 14.2).

For the ball that was caught mid flight and thrown back, Rule 11.2c is relevant:

If it is known or virtually certain that a player’s ball in motion was deliberately deflected or stopped by a person (whether or not the ball has been found), it must not be played as it lies. Instead, the player must take relief:

When Ball Would Have Come to Rest Out of Bounds. The player must take stroke-and-distance relief under Rule 18.2.

 

[Orikoru]

Then he's an idiot and shouldn't be anywhere near a golf course......

Bit harsh that. Would be majorly impressive to catch a golf ball in flight I think.

 

[salfordlad]

The general issue has RB guidance -

9.6/4
Ball at Rest Played and Then Discovered to Have Been Moved by Outside Influence; Ball Turns Out to Be Wrong Ball
If a player discovers, after playing their ball, that it had been moved onto the course by an outside influence after the ball had come to rest out of bounds, the player has played a wrong ball (see definition). Because it was not known or virtually certain at the time the ball was played, the player does not get a penalty for playing a wrong ball under Rule 6.3c(1) but might need to correct the mistake by proceeding under Rule 18.2b (What to Do When Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds) depending when that discovery is made:

• In match play, the player must correct the mistake if the discovery that the ball was moved onto the course by the outside influence is made before the opponent makes their next stroke or takes a similar action (such as conceding the hole). If that discovery occurs after the opponent makes their next stroke or takes a similar action, the player must continue to play out the hole with the wrong ball.
• In stroke play, the player must correct the mistake if the discovery that the ball was moved onto the course by an outside influence is made before making a stroke to begin another hole or, for the final hole of the round, before returning their scorecard. If that discovery occurs after the player has made a stroke on the next hole or, for the final hole of the round, after returning their scorecard, the player’s score with the wrong ball counts

 

[rulefan]

The general issue has RB guidance -

9.6/4
Ball at Rest Played and Then Discovered to Have Been Moved by Outside Influence; Ball Turns Out to Be Wrong Ball
If a player discovers, after playing their ball, that it had been moved onto the course by an outside influence after the ball had come to rest out of bounds, the player has played a wrong ball (see definition). Because it was not known or virtually certain at the time the ball was played, the player does not get a penalty for playing a wrong ball under Rule 6.3c(1)

Why? Surely the player had the opportunity to identify their ball.

 

[backwoodsman]

Why? Surely the player had the opportunity to identify their ball.

Not sure if I'm interpreting your question properly but I think the guidance quoted by Salford covers the sort of situation where the player has no idea that anything untoward has happened. Eg:
Player plays ball & doesnt see it land. But has reasonable idea where it should be. He walks to where he thinks ball should be, and finds it. He plays it. He only then finds out that it was only there because someone had put it there. (Eg person over the fence shouts something like "That was your ball was it? I just chucked it back."

 

[rulefan]

Not sure if I'm interpreting your question properly but I think the guidance quoted by Salford covers the sort of situation where the player has no idea that anything untoward has happened. Eg:
Player plays ball & doesnt see it land. But has reasonable idea where it should be. He walks to where he thinks ball should be, and finds it. He plays it. He only then finds out that it was only there because someone had put it there. (Eg person over the fence shouts something like "That was your ball was it? I just chucked it back."

So why should there be a difference from a situation where
Player plays ball & doesnt see it land. But has reasonable idea where it should be. He walks to where he thinks ball should be, and finds it. He plays it. He only then finds out that it was only there because it was deflected by a tree and another player in another group said " that's your ball".
Assuming in both cases the ball was (say) 10 yards from the expected position.

 

[backwoodsman]

So why should there be a difference from a situation where
Player plays ball & doesnt see it land. But has reasonable idea where it should be. He walks to where he thinks ball should be, and finds it. He plays it. He only then finds out that it was only there because it was deflected by a tree and another player in another group said " that's your ball".
Assuming in both cases the ball was (say) 10 yards from the expected position.

Short answer is I don't know.

Don't know where/what scenario your quote is from so dont know the context. But presumably a tree can't move a ball at rest (unless it topples over on to it?)

 

[Colin L]

The general issue has RB guidance -
9.6/4
Ball at Rest Played and Then Discovered to Have Been Moved by Outside Influence; Ball Turns Out to Be Wrong Ball
If a player discovers, after playing their ball, that it had been moved onto the course by an outside influence after the ball had come to rest out of bounds, the player has played a wrong ball (see definition). Because it was not known or virtually certain at the time the ball was played, the player does not get a penalty for playing a wrong ball under Rule 6.3c(1) but might need to correct the mistake by proceeding under Rule 18.2b (What to Do When Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds) depending when that discovery is made:

Why? Surely the player had the opportunity to identify their ball.

The ball was on the course and the player identified and played it not knowing that it had been at rest out of bounds and therefore out of play. When he played it, it was a wrong ball not because it didn't belong to him but because it was out of play. That he was unaware of the fact it had been out of bounds does not change the status of the ball played - it was a wrong ball - but it does exempt him from a penalty.

 

[Crazyface]

What if he heard the fore shout, catches it, and then throws it back over?

Brilliant!

 

[cliveb]

Our course neighbours another course, so if you go over the boundary it's out of bounds. But what if someone on the neighbouring course threw it back over the hedge so it landed in play? Do you take this wonderful gift and continue to play your second shot?

I have a funny story about this exact hole.
Was playing in a medal, a FC sliced his tee shot into Hartsbourne, so played another ball.
As we were walking down the fairway, a voice came from over the hedge: "I'm throwing your ball back".
When the ball was lobbed back over and landed near his feet, he said "that's in play!".
When I said "no it isn't", he was having none of it and insisted he could play it.
After quite a heated debate, I told him to just play both balls and ask for a ruling afterwards.
Unfortunately he scored 6 with both balls, so never needed to get a ruling.
Which is a shame, because I was looking forward to the guffaws of laughter that would have met his appeal.

 

[Steven Rules]

After quite a heated debate, I told him to just play both balls and ask for a ruling afterwards.
Unfortunately he scored 6 with both balls, so never needed to get a ruling.

Hmmmm. DQ.

20.1c(3) Playing Two Balls When Uncertain What to Do. A player who is uncertain about the right procedure while playing a hole may complete the hole with two balls without penalty:
..........

The player must report the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning the scorecard, even if the player scores the same with both balls. The player is disqualified if they fail to do so.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Hmmmm. DQ.

20.1c(3) Playing Two Balls When Uncertain What to Do. A player who is uncertain about the right procedure while playing a hole may complete the hole with two balls without penalty:
..........

The player must report the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning the scorecard, even if the player scores the same with both balls. The player is disqualified if they fail to do so.

Every day is a school day. Never would I have thought that it would have to go to committee if the result was the same with both balls.