Cart path relief feedback

Jigger

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Morning everyone. 16.1 isn’t really clear on this one. In the pic you will see a path with a hedge on the far side which runs down the hole and is not a course boundary. If the ball is on the path closer to the hedge side, what are my relief options?

You could possibly get your feet off the path on that side in some places but largely the hedge is up to the path. Where you can get your feet fully off the path, it isn’t reasonable / is impossible to make a swing in the hedge. Does this make the hole side of the path the nearest point of relief?

I ask as many in the club would suggest my relief would be in the hedge due to the position of the ball. The only real options in that case is an unplayable lie to get two clubs onto the hole side or risk chipping your club on the stones on the path as not tarmac.

Thanks
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nickjdavis

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If the ball is, as described, on the path closer to the hedge side it is likely that NPR will be in the hedge. The course side of the path is only an option if indeed it is the NPR (depending on how wide the path is, it is possible that NPR could be in some instances on the course side). The hedge is irrelevant when deciding where you can take relief....you have to consider the course as a blank canvas when determining NPR.

Play the ball as it lies or take an unplayable
 

Slab

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Your relief option (if chosen) is from the path not relief from a path/hedge combo

The presence of the hedge doesn't come into it when identifying nearest point of relief from the 'path'
 

jim8flog

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As per Neilds.

There is nothing in the rule that says you have to take relief.

Where I play there are a few paths where I prefer to hit off them rather than take nearest point of relief.

Always remember to check where your nearest point of relief is before picking up the ball and also remember to check local rules as there may be another option such as a dropping zone.
 

jim8flog

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One other point to add is that if you intend to hit it off the path loose stones are loose impediments and can be removed (remebering not to cause the ball to move).
 

Jigger

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Thanks all. All the responses above are exactly how we play it but always good to get other views just in case.

My next comment will no doubt spark debate but it is an example that full relief should entitle you to make some form of swing. Dropping in a thick hedge would not allow this and is therefore a penalising option rather than a relieving one. Obviously that then opens up a discussion of what constitutes a swing.

Also at points where I can plant my feet, I believe the rule wold not allow me to drop where my feet would be as I’m not then taking full relief?
 

Banchory Buddha

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Thanks all. All the responses above are exactly how we play it but always good to get other views just in case.

My next comment will no doubt spark debate but it is an example that full relief should entitle you to make some form of swing. Dropping in a thick hedge would not allow this and is therefore a penalising option rather than a relieving one. Obviously that then opens up a discussion of what constitutes a swing.

Also at points where I can plant my feet, I believe the rule wold not allow me to drop where my feet would be as I’m not then taking full relief?
No full relief is from the thing you're getting relief from, no entitlement to be able to make a swing as long as you now have relief from that which you taking relief from. Your relief must be full relief, if you're dropping from path, once the ball is at rest you can't then have your stance on the path, full relief must be taken.
 

Jigger

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Sorry to disappoint, but there's no entitlement to being able to play a ball when taking relief.
Crazy though isn’t it when you consider the entire game is swinging a club at a ball. It’s like throwing a javelin with a brick wall right in front of you.
 

Colin L

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Crazy though isn’t it when you consider the entire game is swinging a club at a ball. It’s like throwing a javelin with a brick wall right in front of you.
I've added references to my previous post.

I don't know about crazy. It wouldn't be workable to be allowed to pick and choose where your NPCR is depending on the terrain and vegetation.
 

Jigger

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I've added references to my previous post.

I don't know about crazy. It wouldn't be workable to be allowed to pick and choose where your NPCR is depending on the terrain and vegetation.

An interesting point. Probably less issues occur from a hedge than creating a grey area. We all want certainty in the rules.

There’s no other choice then. Petition the club to remove the hedge and if they won’t, pop down with a very large can of petrol!!! ???
 

doublebogey7

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An interesting point. Probably less issues occur from a hedge than creating a grey area. We all want certainty in the rules.

There’s no other choice then
. Petition the club to remove the hedge and if they won’t, pop down with a very large can of petrol!!! ???

You could ask the committee to consider a dropping zone.
 

nickjdavis

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Would the NPR be different for a left-handed player?

Depends very much where on the path the ball lies.

A left handed player might be afforded the advantage that the position of the nearest point of relief may be only 3 or 4 inches off the path (because in the situation pictured the lefties feet will be closer to the hedge than the ball)...which may allow a leftie to then take a stance....so a lefties backside might be stuck in the hedge where a righties ball would be in the hedge instead.
 
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backwoodsman

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An interesting point. Probably less issues occur from a hedge than creating a grey area. We all want certainty in the rules.

There’s no other choice then. Petition the club to remove the hedge and if they won’t, pop down with a very large can of petrol!!! ???
I suppose you could try the option of not hitting it onto the path in the first place?
 

Jigger

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Depends very much where on the path the ball lies.

A left handed player might be afforded the advantage that the position of the nearest point of relief may be only 3 or 4 inches off the path (because in the situation pictured the lefties feet will be closer to the hedge than the ball)...which may allow a leftie to then take a stance....so a lefties backside might be stuck in the hedge where a righties ball would be in the hedge instead.
Is that not building a stance?
 

nickjdavis

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Is that not building a stance?

No.

8.1b/3 – Examples of “Fairly Taking a Stance”
Although a player is allowed to play in any direction, he or she is not entitled to a normal stance or swing and must adapt to the situation and use the least intrusive course of action.
Examples of actions that are considered fairly taking a stance and are allowed under Rule 8.1b even if the action results in an improvement include:
  • Backing into a branch or a boundary object when that is the only way to take a stance for the selected stroke, even if this moves the branch or boundary object out of the way or causes it to bend or break.
  • Bending a branch with his or her hands to get under a tree to play a ball when that is the only way to get under the tree to take a stance.
See 8.1b/4 for when a player gets a penalty for doing more than is necessary to take a stance.

8.1b/4 – Examples of Not “Fairly Taking a Stance”
Examples of actions that are not considered fairly taking a stance and will result in a penalty under Rule 8.1a if they improve conditions affecting the stroke include:
  • Deliberately moving, bending or breaking branches with a hand, a leg or the body to get them out of the way of the backswing or stroke.
  • Standing on tall grass or weeds in a way that pushes them down and to the side so that they are out of the way of the area of intended stance or swing, when a stance could have been taken without doing so.
  • Hooking one branch on another or braiding two weeds to keep them away from the stance or swing.
  • Using a hand to bend a branch that obscures the view of the ball after taking the stance.
  • Bending an interfering branch in taking a stance when a stance could have been taken without doing so.
 
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