Red posts around water

Tashyboy

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Playing with my brother today and he made an observation.
One of our par threes is over water. It has red posts around it. The water is now 6ft past the posts. He asked that if the ball ended up past the red posts but still in the water, do you get a free drop.
We didn’t know.Thoughts please.
 

clubchamp98

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Playing with my brother today and he made an observation.
One of our par threes is over water. It has red posts around it. The water is now 6ft past the posts. He asked that if the ball ended up past the red posts but still in the water, do you get a free drop.
We didn’t know.Thoughts please.
Yes any water outside the boundary of the hazard is casual water.

Nearest point of relief.
 

rulefan

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Yes any water outside the boundary of the hazard is casual water.
I think you mean Temporary Water

But note -

A penalty area is:
  • Any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee), including a sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open watercourse (even if not containing water)
If a Committee has mistakenly excluded an area of water that is clearly part of a penalty area when defining its edge (such as by placing stakes in a location that means there is a portion of water from the penalty area that appears to be in the general area), that area is part of the penalty area.

I must admit I'm not to happy about the wording of the Definition
 

D-S

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I think you mean Temporary Water

But note -

A penalty area is:
  • Any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee), including a sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open watercourse (even if not containing water)
If a Committee has mistakenly excluded an area of water that is clearly part of a penalty area when defining its edge (such as by placing stakes in a location that means there is a portion of water from the penalty area that appears to be in the general area), that area is part of the penalty area.

I must admit I'm not to happy about the wording of the Definition
Also this is the definition of Temporary Water
Any temporary accumulation of water on the surface of the ground (such as puddles from rain or irrigation or an overflow from a body of water) that:
  • Is not in a penalty area, and
  • Can be seen before or after the player takes a stance (without pressing down excessively with their feet).”
So if it is clearly an overflow and not in the penalty area (beyond the red stakes) it is Temporary Water from which you get free relief.
 

clubchamp98

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I think you mean Temporary Water

But note -

A penalty area is:
  • Any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee), including a sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open watercourse (even if not containing water)
If a Committee has mistakenly excluded an area of water that is clearly part of a penalty area when defining its edge (such as by placing stakes in a location that means there is a portion of water from the penalty area that appears to be in the general area), that area is part of the penalty area.

I must admit I'm not to happy about the wording of the Definition
It was Casual water on Saturday.😳

Even after all this rain I havnt heard one person call it Temporary!
It will take years for that.
 

salfordlad

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Yes any water outside the boundary of the hazard is casual water.

Nearest point of relief.
It's past time to move on with the language. Hazard is now penalty area. Casual water is now temporary water. And relief is in an area based on the nearest point of complete relief - it is not 'at' the nearest point of relief. I'm sure there are easily-influenced young kiddies reading these threads, we need to train them right.
 

NearHull

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It's past time to move on with the language. Hazard is now penalty area. Casual water is now temporary water. And relief is in an area based on the nearest point of complete relief - it is not 'at' the nearest point of relief. I'm sure there are easily-influenced young kiddies reading these threads, we need to train them right.
No…..struggling with that one.
 

clubchamp98

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It's past time to move on with the language. Hazard is now penalty area. Casual water is now temporary water. And relief is in an area based on the nearest point of complete relief - it is not 'at' the nearest point of relief. I'm sure there are easily-influenced young kiddies reading these threads, we need to train them right.
See that’s what golfers don’t like !
Perfectly good names changed for no good reason 😳
 

bobmac

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See that’s what golfers don’t like !
Perfectly good names changed for no good reason 😳
Completely agree. And then being told we must change because they say so.
Far too many names and rules being changed unnecessarily, and not just golf.
eg
Q. Must I pay VED if I don't drive on the roads
A. No
Therefor it is a tax to use the roads
Road tax
 

salfordlad

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See that’s what golfers don’t like !
Perfectly good names changed for no good reason 😳
Not this golfer. These examples of the old language are simply dumb, the new names are more sensible, more meaningful. Ground Under Repair should also go, it has no necessary relationship with repair - it is just certain defined conditions and anywhere the Committee allows an alternative to play as lies.
 

rulefan

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And isn't 'temporary' reflecting the transient nature of the accumulation as opposed to it being relaxed or informal.
 

bobmac

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In my opnion, the old term 'nearest point of relief' was not perfectly good. It failed to convey that partial relief was not permissible; there was a requirement then, as now, to take complete relief. The new terminology helps to reinforce that requirement.
If that is in relation to the ridiculous ruling against Payne Stewart 31 years ago, he knew the rule
 

Colin L

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I never approved of casual water - doing whatever water does when it's slouching along in trainers, hands in the pockets of its jeans, wearing a t-shirt with a rude slogan on it, chewing gum. There's no place for that kind of water on a golf course. Lowers the tone.

I think an opportunity was missed to emphasise its ephemeral nature by re-naming it Passing Water. Then we would have got relief from passing water.
 
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