Thanks. OK so on point C, you drop on the back of the green, so not having to cross the pond a second time, IF, the first ball crossed it, touched the far side, but rolled back into the pond.
But not if the first shot failed to carry the pond.
Green side water hazard
- Thread starter timd77
- Start date
But not if the first shot failed to carry the pond.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
No. Back on a line means going back in the direction from which you played your shot (although not on the actual line of your shot).. if you play a shot over a pond & onto a green - and ball then rolls back in to the PA - as Salfordlad says, there are no options to drop on the far side of the green away from the pond.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Not exactly. Back on THE Line. There is only one line.
ie THE line from the hole, through the point at which the ball last crossed the margin of the penalty area, as far on the course as you like but not in the same penalty area.
17.1d has full details
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Yep, I know that. I was just trying to illustrate that 'back' means somewhat in the direction from which you'd come - rather than 'back' - meaning any other direction.
rulie
Head Pro
I think the diagrams in the Rule book (referenced above) explain in succinctly.
bobmac
Major Champion
On the course, John asks his playing partner as his ball, landed on the green then spun back into the water, why cant he drop on the green side of the water. His playing partner explains what the ruling says but the ruling doesn't explain why, it just says what he must do.
John is still not happy.
If he's told he can't drop on the green side because he is dropping nearer the hole to where the lies, that would make sense.
So John drops on the correct side, happy with the explanation.
No need for geometry
John is still not happy.
If he's told he can't drop on the green side because he is dropping nearer the hole to where the lies, that would make sense.
So John drops on the correct side, happy with the explanation.
No need for geometry
Steven Rules
Well-known member
John might appear happy but it is actually probably blissful ignorance. The explanation given to John in #26 was flawed. The spot where the ball lies is irrelevant (as explained in #4) - unless John wants to play the ball as it lies, which he is perfectly entitled to do.
Steven Rules
Well-known member
Geometry can be your friend. Depending on the geometry, it might be very possible to drop on the green side of the red penalty area.
bobmac
Major Champion
''Because the rules say so'' isn't always a sufficient answer to ''why''
bobmac
Major Champion
Are there any other rules you want to explain to me?
rulefan
Tour Winner
This diagram indicates that may not always be helpful
Attachments
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
OK, point taken.
Steven Rules
Well-known member
Are there any other rules you would like me to explain to you? I would be happy to do so. That is what this forum is for - edit - learning from each other about the Rules.
The objective evidence (i.e. your posts #2, #5, #26) suggests to me that increasing your understanding of penalty area relief options is not unnecessary.
I haven't seen any post in this thread that rules out dropping the ball on the green side of the penalty area. It is geometry-dependant.
In my opinion 17.1d(3) contains quite a lot of the 'why'. (e.g. The relief area must not be nearer the hole than the reference point.) I am not sure what more you are looking for in terms of 'why'.
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bobmac
Major Champion
I know rules change and it has been 16 years since I passed my rules exam but I'm well aware that John has the option to play from the water if he wants to. Who hasn't seen a you tube video of someone trying and falling in the water.
The rules may seem clear in the rules committee room but when you're in the pro shop with a questioning golfer in front of you asking why you can't drop greenside and if you can play from a hazard why can't you drop in the hazard, it's much simpler to explain it in terms he understands. You can't drop a ball nearer to the hole than where the ball is lying. It may not be exactly by the book but it placates the golfer in front of you.
The rules may seem clear in the rules committee room but when you're in the pro shop with a questioning golfer in front of you asking why you can't drop greenside and if you can play from a hazard why can't you drop in the hazard, it's much simpler to explain it in terms he understands. You can't drop a ball nearer to the hole than where the ball is lying. It may not be exactly by the book but it placates the golfer in front of you.
That's not how it looks to me but I will say no more
salfordlad
Well-known member
It may just be me, but fabricating a nonsensical answer, with no legitimacy under the Rules of Golf, doesn't seem to me to be a useful way to "placate" a golfer. It can be common that a lateral relief area is closer to the hole than where the ball is lying in the PA. That is a simple, irrefutable fact.
bobmac
Major Champion
I don't care, I was responding to the Op and as I don't work in golf any more it doesn't matter what I think.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Except that you espouse your thoughts on a rules forum
bobmac
Major Champion
Why, am I not allowed to?
rulefan
Tour Winner
You certainly are but why bother if you feel they don't matter?
bobmac
Major Champion
I don't most of the time but every now and then I'll have a delve. Then I remember why I don't
