Green side water hazard

[salfordlad]

I don't most of the time but every now and then I'll have a delve. Then I remember why I don't

Simple question: would you prefer not to have anyone identify if your written words and understanding are inconsistent with the Rules? Is it also your preference that any posts here by anyone that are inconsistent with the Rules should be left uncommented so those words can potentially mislead other site visitors?
For me, any day when I learn something I didn't know or didn't understand about the Rules, or had forgotten, is a good day.

 

[bobmac]

I've spent 13 years on this forum reading swing advice from ''experts'' that has been utter rubbish but I haven't felt the need to dive in and correct them, after all they're only trying to help.

For me, any day when I learn something I didn't know or didn't understand about the Rules, or had forgotten, is a good day.

Would it be fair to say you're a little obsessed by the rules of golf?

 

[salfordlad]

I've spent 13 years on this forum reading swing advice from ''experts'' that has been utter rubbish but I haven't felt the need to dive in and correct them, after all they're only trying to help.



Would it be fair to say you're a little obsessed by the rules of golf?

I don't believe "a little" is correct.

And it is much easier to be correct on the rules than on what someone's swing needs.

 

[bobmac]

Thank you for being honest, many aren't.

 

[Steven Rules]

I've spent 13 years on this forum reading swing advice from ''experts'' that has been utter rubbish

There are a million swing tips out there. Only two hundred thousand of them will be relevant to you.

And it is much easier to be correct on the rules than on what someone's swing needs.

Especially if the person offering swing tips hasn't even seen your swing.

 

[bobmac]

I

Especially if the person offering swing tips hasn't even seen your swing.

I'm out

 

[rulefan]

I


I'm out

not forever I hope

 

[Colin L]

I've spent 13 years on this forum reading swing advice from ''experts'' that has been utter rubbish but I haven't felt the need to dive in and correct them, after all they're only trying to help.

Bob, I think the important difference is that if someone reads a rubbish bit of swing advice, tries it out and gets in a mess, it only affects him adversely. On the other hand, if someone gives wrong rules advice it could affect many people and even dictate the outcome of a competition.

 

[timd77]

Hi, I’m sure this has been asked a before but I wanted to add the specifics of my course, we have 2 holes affected by ponds, both red stakes with a red line sprayed around them approx a yard from the water.

On the first hole, it’s a par 4, pond next to the green which sucks you in. In the summer if you hit the green too far left the ball can easily roll off the green and into the water. In fact, I’ve seen a putt roll into the water! Where do you drop for this? On that red line where the ball crossed making sure you’re not nearer the hole? Or do you have to go around the other side of the pond?

The second one is a par 3 over the pond, green slopes back to front. Obviously if you plop the ball straight in you drop this side of the water, but again, it’s easy to clear the water, ball pitches into the fringe and trickles back into the water. So with this, again, can you drop along the red line as long as you’re not nearer the hole from where the ball crossed?

Hoping I never need to use this but it’s bound to happen!

Cheers

Resurrecting this one slightly…

Playing a friendly match last night (no money etc), the par 3 over water, hit a lovely 7 iron which was heading nicely to the middle of the green, wind hit it and instead the ball pitched on the left side of the green, bounced left a couple of times and disappeared.

Got up there, couldn’t see the ball and so assumed it had continued bouncing/trickling into the water, lots of reeds and so I couldn’t see it. Followed the process we discussed on here, using the red stakes/line, dropping not nearer the hole etc and chipped in for a par. I said to my PP that I’m glad I researched this scenario a few weeks ago as I would’ve probably dropped the ball the other side of the water if I didn’t known.

His response was that if it had been a proper comp/match, then it wouldn’t have counted as he has to agree with what happened to the ball and as he didn’t watch it long enough to see it hit the green and pitch left, he couldn’t be sure.

As it was just a friendly I just said I didn’t think he was right and left it at that.

Is he correct? I always thought it was down to the individual player to confirm what happened and for it to be down to the own honesty/integrity unless evidence confirmed otherwise?

 

[LincolnShep]

The player, using all available evidence, has to decide if it's KVC that the ball is the penalty area. The opinion of other players, caddies, spectators etc all counts as 'available information'. If your marker doesn't agree with your decision then he/she could refuse to sign your card and the matter would have to be referred to the competition committee to make a decision. However, if he wasn't watching then his opinion doesn't really have much weight!
The test for KVC is quite high, if there is somewhere that the ball could be lost outside the hazard then it's not KVC.

 

[backwoodsman]

As per LincolnShep. It's not up to him to agree. Its your decision. You can take his view into account, but it's down to you to decide. If he doesn't like your decision, then he can refer the matter to 'the committee' and they can then decide. But not him.

As to your scenario, you have to be 95% sure it went into the PA in order to take the drop. If there's anywhere else it could be, then you're almost certainly looking at 3 off the tee.

 

[timd77]

Great, thanks both, just as I thought. There’s nowhere else the ball could’ve gone, there’s no rough between the green and the water, the water wraps part way around the left side of the green, could clearly see the ball hit the left side of the green, couple of bounces and then disappear. Not really sure why he felt the need to pipe up, but there you go!

 

[Swango1980]

Resurrecting this one slightly…

Playing a friendly match last night (no money etc), the par 3 over water, hit a lovely 7 iron which was heading nicely to the middle of the green, wind hit it and instead the ball pitched on the left side of the green, bounced left a couple of times and disappeared.

Got up there, couldn’t see the ball and so assumed it had continued bouncing/trickling into the water, lots of reeds and so I couldn’t see it. Followed the process we discussed on here, using the red stakes/line, dropping not nearer the hole etc and chipped in for a par. I said to my PP that I’m glad I researched this scenario a few weeks ago as I would’ve probably dropped the ball the other side of the water if I didn’t known.

His response was that if it had been a proper comp/match, then it wouldn’t have counted as he has to agree with what happened to the ball and as he didn’t watch it long enough to see it hit the green and pitch left, he couldn’t be sure.

As it was just a friendly I just said I didn’t think he was right and left it at that.

Is he correct? I always thought it was down to the individual player to confirm what happened and for it to be down to the own honesty/integrity unless evidence confirmed otherwise?

I always chuckle when I see so may of these rules queries open up with a line informing us that is was a non-serious friendly match. Just in case, God forbid, it was in a competition and other forumers would take your head off if it was determined you made the wrong decision

It is interesting that the guy you played with incorrectly felt he was a referee. And, even if he did mistakenly think it was up to him and what he saw as to how you proceed, then I'd be asking him why he then didn't bother watching the ball long enough to see what happened.

 

[timd77]

I always chuckle when I see so may of these rules queries open up with a line informing us that is was a non-serious friendly match. Just in case, God forbid, it was in a competition and other forumers would take your head off if it was determined you made the wrong decision

It is interesting that the guy you played with incorrectly felt he was a referee. And, even if he did mistakenly think it was up to him and what he saw as to how you proceed, then I'd be asking him why he then didn't bother watching the ball long enough to see what happened.

Exactly, they might find out which club I’m at and report me!

 

[Old Colner]

I was having a discussion with a PP last week and talking about penalty areas (yellow) mhe said ”you do not have to keep the hazard between you and the hole after rule changes”. Now on reading this thread and the rule referenced, I have to disagree with him, although it does not not specially state it anymore, I would say you have to if you follow the drop procedure correctly.

 

[LincolnShep]

I was having a discussion with a PP last week and talking about penalty areas (yellow) mhe said ”you do not have to keep the hazard between you and the hole after rule changes”. Now on reading this thread and the rule referenced, I have to disagree with him, although it does not not specially state it anymore, I would say you have to if you follow the drop procedure correctly.

If you're taking back on the line relief:
1. you identify the point that the ball last crossed the margin of the penalty area (this is the 'reference point')
2. extend a line from the flag through the reference point and beyond
3. drop on that line as far back as you want but keeping the reference point between your ball and the hole
In 99.99% of cases, this will mean that the PA remains between you and the hole. Technically, there is a very slight edge case that could mean you did not have to re-cross the PA, merely skirt it. It could only happen where your ball has entered the PA via an extremity and, when you drop, your ball rolls a little (but not more than 1 club length or you would need to re-drop).

 

[doublebogey7]

I was having a discussion with a PP last week and talking about penalty areas (yellow) mhe said ”you do not have to keep the hazard between you and the hole after rule changes”. Now on reading this thread and the rule referenced, I have to disagree with him, although it does not not specially state it anymore, I would say you have to if you follow the drop procedure correctly.

As far as I am aware the rule has never said that you must keep the PA (water hazard) between you and the hole. In fact for a red PA you would rarely need to do so.

 

[Tower]

As far as I am aware the rule has never said that you must keep the PA (water hazard) between you and the hole. In fact for a red PA you would rarely need to do so.

That's the difference between Yellow and Red PAs. Yellow requires back on line of hole and point of entry. Red also allows up to 2CL lateral relief of the entry point. https://www.randa.org/en/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-17.

 

[Old Colner]

As far as I am aware the rule has never said that you must keep the PA (water hazard) between you and the hole. In fact for a red PA you would rarely need to do so.

I wasn’t talking about red (lateral) hazards, now renamed Penalty Areas, I did specify yellow.

I was always under the impression that was the difference between the two penalty areas, red allowed lateral relief, yellow didn’t.

 

[Colin L]

I wasn’t talking about red (lateral) hazards, now renamed Penalty Areas, I did specify yellow.

I was always under the impression that was the difference between the two penalty areas, red allowed lateral relief, yellow didn’t.

I would stick with that impression if I were you.