Red Cards...

[Imurg]

Whilst watching Arsenal giving away a penalty on SSNews and the keeper only getting a yellow card for it, I started wondering that if he had got a Red, ARsenal had challenged it and the FA recinded it, should they disallow the goal too....?
After all the Ref must have made a mistake by giving the Red and the Penalty in the first place...

If you can recind Red Cards, why not the goal that is scored from the Penalty...?

Discuss.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

No they cant go changing the results of matches in retrospect, or order a rematch, its a potential nightmare

the only way forward is for there to be a video ref as in Rugby, Cricket, Tennis. any contentious issue can be dealt with there and then.

The problem is that 1 bad decision can effect the result, which can make the difference between relegation or winning or qualifying for something else, there is a lot of money at stake at the top

Its people like Platini and Blatter who are keeping the game in the dark ages

 

[Fader]

No they cant go changing the results of matches in retrospect, or order a rematch, its a potential nightmare

the only way forward is for there to be a video ref as in Rugby, Cricket, Tennis. any contentious issue can be dealt with there and then.

The problem is that 1 bad decision can effect the result, which can make the difference between relegation or winning or qualifying for something else, there is a lot of money at stake at the top

Its people like Platini and Blatter who are keeping the game in the dark ages

Can't really argue with that at all, rescinding a red card is done regularly these days and as such the FA need to look closer at the rules and amend them with additional video officials imo a must now.

The rule i'd look at closely is the last man rule, after all how often now do we see a side get a man sent off in the box for being last man, conseding a penalty and the subsequent goal from that. Imo this is far to harsh as it puts a team a man and a goal down, which in turn makes it harder to get back into a game. Surely the penalty is enough punishment with a booking for the offence, yes theres a chance of missing the spot kick but theres a greater chance of scoring it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I thought the last man rule was brought in to stop defenders committing ''professional'' fouls.

 

[pokerjoke]

Thats never going to happen im afraid.
To be honest mate these refs need re-training.
First of all he missed the foul by Ramires.
Then he missed the fact that it was never a penalty,Ramires slipped into the keeper.
Also the ref in the utd game missed the Rooney penalty.
The games are becoming so fast these days refs cant keep up.
The linesman was in a better position,but still couldnt make the right decision.

 

[Fish]

There will always be contentious decisions unless we make the game totally sterile, which I wouldn't want.

It wouldn't be the same without seeing whinger waving his hands and red nose looking at his watch with 5 minutes extra time being played already on the side lines and then being reprimanded for saying it as it was on the TV.

I do think the linesmen could get involved more and do cop out a lot. I think the ref's and linesmen could be made full-time professionals, trained and re-shown games during the week and as such be graded better and accountable more but were always being told there is a shortage coming through due to the abuse and attacks they endure in the lower leagues.

If were going down the TV replay route then it should be only for the 18 yard box area only.

I think the last man sending off is a good rule/law as it does/should stop professional cynical fouls and you cannot have the rule split for when its in or out of the area, it has to be universal.

 

[Imurg]

The problem is that 1 bad decision can effect the result, which can make the difference between relegation or winning or qualifying for something else, there is a lot of money at stake at the top

Bad decisions are made in every single game - Human Nature and all that...

MY point is, if the FA can deem a Ref to be wrong in awarding a Red Card, then surely they have to rescind the penalty and subsequent goal as the Ref made a mistake in awarding it....

Take Kompany's tackle last week - he got a Red for it that was later rescinded. If a goal had been scored directly from that free-kick, how can that count when the tackle that led to the free-kick has been shown to not be a foul...? If the Ref's decision is final (one of the first things I was taught in Football) then at the moment it obviously isn't.

They either have to let the Ref run the game, live with the mistakes and not undermine him or get video in now.
I can see video causing as many problems as it solves. Every tackle will be scrutinised, every descision analysed...

And if a team gets relegated beciuse of a poor decision then so be it. A team doesn't get relegated because of 1 poor call, it gets relegated because, over a season, they were worse than other teams. If they don't want to be relegated then play better.....

 

[Foxholer]

That's 3 Red cards that I know have been rescinded in the last few weeks. Seems a bit dangerous to me - though I'm inclined to think the FA was correct to do so.

Goal-line technology apart, the only change I'd make is to punish divers who seek penalties more severely, either as instant Red (equivalent to Professional Foul) or by subsequent citing - aka Rugby Union.

 

[Fader]

That's 3 Red cards that I know have been rescinded in the last few weeks. Seems a bit dangerous to me - though I'm inclined to think the FA was correct to do so.

Goal-line technology apart, the only change I'd make is to punish divers who seek penalties more severely, either as instant Red (equivalent to Professional Foul) or by subsequent citing - aka Rugby Union.

Heard a stat on Talksport something like 5 of the last 6 have been overturned. Something needs looking at with the rules or the way refs are interpretting them because it's becoming to inconsistent

 

[MadAdey]

Last man equalling a red card and a penalty is fair enough in my eyes. Why should a team that is 1-0 up in the dying minutes be able to hack a player down that is on goal, making no attempt to get the ball and not really recieving any type of punishment apart from giving a player adirect shot at goal that he had anyway if he had not been fouled. Players should be encouraged to make an attempt to get the ball, not to just clatter the player and IMO that is what the threat of the red card is doing.

 

[MadAdey]

Regarding decisions having a strong influence on peoples final league position is not entirely correct. Someone must remember which magazine it was that ran the article on the real premier league for a season. Basically what they did was to change the outcome of a game by putting decisions correct. ie if a goal was dissalowed for offside when it was not then the team got given it. Goals scored from penalties that clearly where not a penalty got taken away and if a team did not get given a penalty that clearly was then they got given a goal. They used lots of different things to change the final result of a match and I am not going into all of them, as I am sure you get the rough idea. But the outcome over the season was the teams still finished in roughly the same positions with the same team winning it and the same teams going down. I know it is not an exact scientific experiment as wether a team is winning or loosing, will have an influence on the tactics that are being used. But it did make interesting viewing just to see that it sort of proved the old saying of "bad decissions will equal themself out over the season".

 

[bladeplayer]

Players & tv are the biggest problem they are cheating & diving their way through matches , so in a split second the ref has to decide was he pulled , did he dive etc , then we at home are shown it in mili second by mili second, frame by frame speed & we say the ref must be blind .. if players were more honest then the refs would get more calls right ,

Form a panel of ex referees , & players mixed between keepers , defenders & attackers for a balanced opinion

Then as i said before if a player is found to have cheated they should use video evidence to ban him , if he gets 3 bans for cheating the team gets fined & deducted 3 points

, if the team gets a certain amount of decisions marked against them (ie 3 or 4 players caught twice) they get fined & deducted points , (kinda like the 7 foul per team per half idea in basketball)

The only way to stop the cheating is to deduct points , money means nothing to the big boys

 

[Liverbirdie]

Last man equalling a red card and a penalty is fair enough in my eyes. Why should a team that is 1-0 up in the dying minutes be able to hack a player down that is on goal, making no attempt to get the ball and not really recieving any type of punishment apart from giving a player adirect shot at goal that he had anyway if he had not been fouled. Players should be encouraged to make an attempt to get the ball, not to just clatter the player and IMO that is what the threat of the red card is doing.

Agreed, but only for "professional fouls". I don't think it's right when a genuine attempt is made for the ball and is slightly mistimed that both a red card and a penalty is given.

If they make no attemot for the ball, pull a shirt, handball it, whip someone up, they should go.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Until the referee gets more help from the linesmen, 4th official and technology (video ref etc) then wrong and contentious decisions will continue. I do think the FA need to review their policy on rescinding too. At the end of the day if a goal is scored from a penalty and the player is sent off then thats the way it goes. If they started changing results retrospectively or replaying the situation will become farcical and no doubt clubs will start playing the system

 

[MadAdey]

Agreed, but only for "professional fouls". I don't think it's right when a genuine attempt is made for the ball and is slightly mistimed that both a red card and a penalty is given.

If they make no attemot for the ball, pull a shirt, handball it, whip someone up, they should go.

I agree totally with what you are saying but you can't have that. Doing that brings ambiguity into the rules and when that happens more mistakes will get made. Defender makes a challenge the referee will now have to decide not only is it a foul and was the player clear through at goal. You are now asking the referee to decide if the player as making a genuine attempt to get the ball. that is my biggest gripe with the offside rule now. So many things to think about I am not surprised they get it wrong on a regular basis.

I remember when offside was offside. None of this having to decide if the player was involved in the first phase or second phase, was he involved in the first phase even though he did not touch the ball, did he have 2 players between him and the goal when the ball was played forward to him or not. When I was younger it was simple, was the ball played forward to you and was there 2 players between you and the goal the moment the ball was played to you, none of this first and second phase rubbish.

 

[Kellfire]

I thought the last man rule was brought in to stop defenders committing ''professional'' fouls.

There is no last man rule. Myth.

Just as a straight red isn't normally three games out. Another myth.

 

[Fish]

What about a third colour card which like Rugby League (hand gesture) goes on report and is viewed and disciplined later. If its a minimum foul the colour means a booking at the very least but could then turn into match bans and upgraded to red after the review.

Stops the rescinding, keeps players on the pitch when the ref is being conned or not 100% and would make players think twice as you cannot escape the camera's and subsequent review.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I agree totally with what you are saying but you can't have that. Doing that brings ambiguity into the rules and when that happens more mistakes will get made. Defender makes a challenge the referee will now have to decide not only is it a foul and was the player clear through at goal. You are now asking the referee to decide if the player as making a genuine attempt to get the ball. that is my biggest gripe with the offside rule now. So many things to think about I am not surprised they get it wrong on a regular basis. Quote

The refs have to decide/interpret on deliberate handball or not, although leaving your hands up as a target has also crept in recently.

I'm more a fan of 11 vs 11, with far too many sendings off these days. It's one of the reasons diving has increased. Look at Gary neville yesterday saying Dempsey should have went down as it would have been a red and a penalty.

Neville is a very good pundit, but that's shocking, but shows why some would as you get a double whammy.

I wouldn't have been happy if Dempsey had done that if he was my player - chances of getting a penalty against man U and all that are a lot slimmer. :whoo:

 

[Foxholer]

Heard a stat on Talksport something like 5 of the last 6 have been overturned. Something needs looking at with the rules or the way refs are interpretting them because it's becoming to inconsistent

Dangerous precedent by FA.

Kompany one fine, as I think that was a mistake.

However, the West Ham vs Everton ones were quite probably technically both Reds - even though not malicious. They certainly both deserved Yellow - solely for the potential danger. I think the FA needs to have a 'Red Card was sufficient' punishment, rather than having to rescind the card - which actually deserved a Yellow. They do, currently, have the ability to suspend the player for 1 or 2 games, though the norm is 3. I don't think they should get involved in any downgrading of Red to Yellow though. That seriously undermines Referees imo.

 

[Kellfire]

though the norm is 3.

No it isn't!

The normal ban for a straight red is ONE GAME.