VAR - Thoughts

[Lord Tyrion]

More people, that seems to be the problem in football too many people. We have assistant referees, many won’t step in when a decision is obviously wrong, a ref who uses VAR as an excuse not to make a decision and a highly played ref on the sidelines whos only job appears as to be to hold a board up and now a person sat in a studio somewhere taking an age and still comes up with a poor decision.
Get back to three guys running around the pitch, if they make a wrong decision so be it, people make mistakes. That’s how lower league football is played. All that happens now is football pays more to make the same mistakes. It’s a refs association money making scam.

I disagree. The 4th official is an absolute waste of space, I can't see anyone arguing against that. The two assistants run the line and are in contact with the ref through mics. They are likely communicating at all times, we are just not aware of it. I believe FIFA are about to step in and push associations towards the onfield ref coming across and looking at a screen but if that does not happen I think 2 people, official and ex player, should be VAR, official having the final say. Discussing the incident may help the thought process and give better answers.

Lower league football does not have 15 camera angles highlighting every error, each match is not picked apart by fans and media post match. Decisions are made, people move on without ever really knowing if they were right or wrong. At PL level the whole world can see.

 

[Old Skier]

I disagree. The 4th official is an absolute waste of space, I can't see anyone arguing against that. The two assistants run the line and are in contact with the ref through mics. They are likely communicating at all times, we are just not aware of it. I believe FIFA are about to step in and push associations towards the onfield ref coming across and looking at a screen but if that does not happen I think 2 people, official and ex player, should be VAR, official having the final say. Discussing the incident may help the thought process and give better answers.

Lower league football does not have 15 camera angles highlighting every error, each match is not picked apart by fans and media post match. Decisions are made, people move on without ever really knowing if they were right or wrong. At PL level the whole world can see.

Your right, in lower leagues the decision is made and we move on. At the top we have so called experts and officials pouring over decisions and still not agreeing so making a decision and moving on seems a good and cheap alternative.

 

[Crazyface]

Hell no! Keep it. It may eventually stop all those foreign players from diving all over the place.

And VAR will never stop the agruements over offside. This rule needs to be changed. I've got an idea, but no one gets it because they cannot see past what is already in place.

And also with it in place, England will stop getting dodgey decisions against them. Semi Finals last time out with a carp team. If we ever get a good one we will win everything.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Your right, in lower leagues the decision is made and we move on. At the top we have so called experts and officials pouring over decisions and still not agreeing so making a decision and moving on seems a good and cheap alternative.

I think 'moving on' is a much healthier option but the genie is out of the bottle on that one. I'd happily agree to that but you would need all of the media to buy into that as well.

Half of MotD and other football shows were taken up with dissecting decisions and destroying refs pre VAR, it was becoming destructive. Now clearly there are VAR discussions but they are not quite as constant. Other sports have managed it pretty well, football needs to learn from them (it seemingly has not)

 

[PaulS]

Yesterday saw two of the worst decisions seen and then compounded by VAR unbelievably failing to change the decision

It was a clear pen for Kane

And Fernades again throwing himself to the floor and potentially causing serious injury but getting a penalty !!

 

[Billysboots]

Sorry, but VAR is causing far more controversy than we had before it was introduced in the first place. That controversy will never be eradicated for the simple reason that the decision making is subjective.

I know BIM has referred to the United penalty last night as an example, but the one awarded to Southampton was an absolute embarrassment. Ward-Prowse was on the way down prior to any contact with the Everton player. It was a such a clear and obvious error by the on-field referee, the sort of error VAR was designed to resolve, and yet still the decision makers got it wrong.

The whole system is flawed, and is ruining the game, especially for those in the grounds. I have been at Old Trafford more than once when fans have waited in complete bemusement whilst a VAR check is completed, the check often taking several minutes. It’s a nonsense. So, too, are the examples we see when potential offsides are being reviewed. For goodness sake, if the official has to view a call from half a dozen angles, half a dozen times each, in real time, slow-mo, super slow-mo and frame by frame because it’s THAT close a call, just give the benefit to the striker.

I was very much in favour of VAR when it was introduced. I now can’t wait to see the back of it.

 

[Old Skier]

3 VAR decisions last night and all three according to officials and experts after the match said the decision was wrong, this apparently according to Dan Walker was also the view of all the 4th officials.

 

[Orikoru]

The biggest factor against VAR is not the VAR itself, it's the fact that they needlessly changed the offside and handball rules to try and give them clearer definition, when in fact all the did was make them both grossly unfair to the attacking team. The whole concept of "benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker" is out the window. Forwards can't keep themselves level with the defence anymore, they have to be onside by an extra one foot margin just to ensure one of their toenails or their ear aren't offside by a centimetre. If a defender hoofs it off your arm from half a yard, then sorry that's the end of the attack. It's like the rules were rewritten by people who have never watched football. (Maybe they were!)

On top of it all, it hasn't eradicated any of the inconsistency at all, because the person reviewing the decisions isn't in the game so has no idea of the context. It should be reviewed by the match referee pitchside, if he feels he needs to. And not be forced to give a stupid illogical handball because that's the rule now, he should be free to use his judgement like before. As Mourinho says, the match referee isn't reffing the game anymore, they're just a spokesman for the bloody VAR team who are miles away.

 

[Orikoru]

I was very much in favour of VAR when it was introduced. I now can’t wait to see the back of it.

Same here - but it won't be going anywhere. Too much money invested, and the football authorities will never, ever admit that they've got something so badly wrong. They'll just say it needs 'minor tweaks'.

 

[clubchamp98]

It will work, they just need to sort out who's running the system. Some of the people they have running and making the VAR decisions are not capable and are making poor decisions. The system would be great and a step forward for the game if the people using it knew what they were doing.

Well if you put OGS in charge he would still give it.
His comments on motd were embarrassing for a manager and ex player.

There was a ref who went to the pitch side monitor this week ( can’t remember what game) he changed his yellow to a red.
I just don’t understand why the refs don’t use this to help them get the right decision.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Sorry, but VAR is causing far more controversy than we had before it was introduced in the first place. That controversy will never be eradicated for the simple reason that the decision making is subjective.

I know BIM has referred to the United penalty last night as an example, but the one awarded to Southampton was an absolute embarrassment. Ward-Prowse was on the way down prior to any contact with the Everton player. It was a such a clear and obvious error by the on-field referee, the sort of error VAR was designed to resolve, and yet still the decision makers got it wrong.

The whole system is flawed, and is ruining the game, especially for those in the grounds. I have been at Old Trafford more than once when fans have waited in complete bemusement whilst a VAR check is completed, the check often taking several minutes. It’s a nonsense. So, too, are the examples we see when potential offsides are being reviewed. For goodness sake, if the official has to view a call from half a dozen angles, half a dozen times each, in real time, slow-mo, super slow-mo and frame by frame because it’s THAT close a call, just give the benefit to the striker.

I was very much in favour of VAR when it was introduced. I now can’t wait to see the back of it.

I referred to the United one last night as we watched it; we'd been out to the cinema earlier so I hadn't seen any of the other ones. Having now seen them, I find it utterly incredible that there was a penalty awarded to Everton, even more incredible that Kane didn't get a penalty (although I do feel a little dirty typing that ) and possibly the most incredible is that Bednarek doesn't get a red card for scything down Richarlison. I cannot think of a bigger display of incompetence across one game day in the Premier League.

I'm like you, I wanted VAR to drive the cheats out & get rid of the dodgy decisions; now I wish it had never been invented.

 

[harpo_72]

It’s not really helping its own cause .. or shall we say the application is a little too prescriptive

 

[apj0524]

Next year FIFA are taking over how VAR is run and premier league will have to come into line with their instructions, not sure how that is going to improve an element that in my view is farcical and sucking the life out of the game

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Next year FIFA are taking over how VAR is run and premier league will have to come into line with their instructions, not sure how that is going to improve an element that in my view is farcical and sucking the life out of the game

First taste of this was at a world cup. I remember it working well, no holding at corners was a big plus. I had high hopes for it at that stage......Fifa ran that so hopefully it will be a positive.

 

[Billysboots]

First taste of this was at a world cup. I remember it working well, no holding at corners was a big plus. I had high hopes for it at that stage......Fifa ran that so hopefully it will be a positive.

It certainly can’t get any worse. Can it?

 

[Swango1980]

Well on last night's evidence, no it won't work and fans will not accept it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53357841

Major screw ups in all 3 of last nights games. The one in the Villa United game was an absolute joke. I'm not sure you can excuse Moss for getting that wrong real time; there is absolutely no defence of the VAR team. Fans of all teams including United fans can clearly see it is not a penalty. It is a foul on the Villa defender and, in my opinion, a yellow card for Fernandes for simulation. I'm sure the authorities will put the icing on the cake shortly by fining Dean Smith for his comments. The very thing I hoped VAR would help to stamp out it actually endorsed last night.

Unless they sort this mess out, RIP football.

I agree, although interesting you focused on that particular incident, and didn't mention the clear penalty on Harry Kane . PS, how on earth was it simulation. There was still contact, which caused him to fall. Like to see you try and stay on your feet.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I agree, although interesting you focused on that particular incident, and didn't mention the clear penalty on Harry Kane . PS, how on earth was it simulation. There was still contact, which caused him to fall. Like to see you try and stay on your feet.

Rolling round the floor holding his ankle like he's been caught,no?

My eyes must be deceiving me because Fernandes definitely stood on the Villa player.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Same here - but it won't be going anywhere. Too much money invested, and the football authorities will never, ever admit that they've got something so badly wrong. They'll just say it needs 'minor tweaks'.

Or use an increase in %’s for getting decisions right.

Which will just gloss over the howlers and the blatant incorrect ones.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Hell no! Keep it. It may eventually stop all those foreign players from diving all over the place.

And VAR will never stop the agruements over offside. This rule needs to be changed. I've got an idea, but no one gets it because they cannot see past what is already in place.

And also with it in place, England will stop getting dodgey decisions against them. Semi Finals last time out with a carp team. If we ever get a good one we will win everything.

Am I the only one whose dying to know your proposal?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I agree, although interesting you focused on that particular incident, and didn't mention the clear penalty on Harry Kane . PS, how on earth was it simulation. There was still contact, which caused him to fall. Like to see you try and stay on your feet.

Well if you look at the time it was posted and the explanation in post #431 the reason why I was commenting on the United game is clearly explained. I have now mentioned the Harry Kane incident having seen it.

As for the simulation, Fernandes wasn't kicked anywhere near the point on his leg that he was holding and squealing about; he actually wasn't kicked at all. If that's not simulation then I don't know what is.