VAR - Thoughts

[Swango1980]

This must have been done before, but not seen a thread lately, shocked. What are your thoughts on VAR in the Premiership this season?

Personally, I think it's been horrific. Anytime it gets a decision right cannot it cannot be used to justify the bizarre decisions it gets wrong, or simply fails to act on. What have we had? It gives a penalty for Watford against Chelsea for the slightest of slight touches on the attacker. Next day it doesn't give a penalty when Richarlison is taken out thigh high in the box, not when Deli Ali handballs it as his had was not deemed to be in an unnatural position (it was above his head). The goals ruled out for offside, like Firmino, or the Sheffield Utd one against Spurs. The lines suggested they were about a millimetre offside, but what level of accuracy do we get with those lines along with the timing in which the pass was deemed to have been played. 3-4 minutes to make some decisions. Fans not having a clue what is going on. Reluctant to celebrate in case a show lace is judged to be offside. I'm a Man Utd fan, and it has been kind to us, but I just can't bring myself to like it in the slightest.

If you don't like it, ways forward? Well, assuming it is here to stay, why can it not be like Rugby? The TV fans hear the dialogue between the VAR and the on field referee. For anything remotely subjective, get the on field referee to watch the incident (on the big screen, or the touchline screen). The on-field referee makes the final decision, it is his reputation on the line after all, so he needs to take responsibility. Even if we disagreed with the decision, we could at least hear their thought process and respect it a bit more. If referees were on microphone, I'd like to think that players would stop screaming and swearing like spoilt brats, they'd just look ridiculous. And, if they were caught swearing on microphone, automatic fine. We could then hear the referee clearly explain his decision to the players involved, then get on with it. As for offside. Fine, review it. But, get rid of those lines. Review it by eye on the screen without the lines. If it is not obvious either way, go with what the linesman flagged for in the first place. The linesman can still delay the flag if it is marginal, in case a goal is scored. Or, the linesman can flag straight away, and the ref can delay the whistle for the next few seconds in case a goal is scored.

But, surely any suggestions would be better than it is now? Unless you enjoy the VAR bashing by the studio pundits after the game.

 

[fundy]

theres about 150 pages of garbage on the seasons football thread about it if youre that way inclined

 

[clubchamp98]

No matter how good the tech is, if you give it to somebody who doesn't know how to use it it’s abysmal.
Consistency is all we want ,but it’s just to subjective at the moment.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Everything new takes time to work through. Has it been perfect...of course not. But we have it, and must refine it as the need for it is beyond question.

 

[USER1999]

If it is judged in real time, by eye, there will be mistakes, but in general, the tolerance either way is pretty big.
Go to super slo mo, and the decision window gets smaller. The scope for iffy decisions gets narrower. But it's still there.

Doesn't work for me.

 

[GG26]

The concept is fine and I welcome it. The execution to date has been dreadful. For me it needs the ref to check on a monitor and not rely on the remote guys, unless it’s offside.

 

[Blue in Munich]

 

[Old Skier]

Bin it, and bring back the proper offside rule

 

[Blue in Munich]

It has been an utter farce. I was for it initially as I hoped it would help stamp out diving; quite the opposite, it seems to endorse it as the Deulofeu incident against Chelsea proved. Worst of all in that incident the match referee got it right (imo) only for VAR to rear its ugly head.

It seems particularly adept at finding toenails offside (Mount v Liverpool, Pulisic v. Liverpool, Sheffield Utd v. Spurs?, etc) yet doesn't get wound back far enough to account for someone so far offside there's clear daylight (Salah v. Southampton). Can't seem to pick up goalkeepers a yard off their line when the penalty is taken (Adrian v. Chelsea). And as a match going fan it is a complete and utter disaster, completely sucking the life out of celebrations (Azpilicueta v. Ajax & v.Liverpool).

It should have been able to clear up issues & pick out the cheats; instead it is being completely & utterly discredited by what appears to be extremely subjective use. The fact that we are all discussing the screw ups rather than pointing out what an improvement it is says it all.

 

[clubchamp98]

View attachment 28564

I like it this week.
I might not like it next week.

 

[clubchamp98]

It has been an utter farce. I was for it initially as I hoped it would help stamp out diving; quite the opposite, it seems to endorse it as the Deulofeu incident against Chelsea proved. Worst of all in that incident the match referee got it right (imo) only for VAR to rear its ugly head.

It seems particularly adept at finding toenails offside (Mount v Liverpool, Pulisic v. Liverpool, Sheffield Utd v. Spurs?, etc) yet doesn't get wound back far enough to account for someone so far offside there's clear daylight (Salah v. Southampton). Can't seem to pick up goalkeepers a yard off their line when the penalty is taken (Adrian v. Chelsea). And as a match going fan it is a complete and utter disaster, completely sucking the life out of celebrations (Azpilicueta v. Ajax & v.Liverpool).

It should have been able to clear up issues & pick out the cheats; instead it is being completely & utterly discredited by what appears to be extremely subjective use. The fact that we are all discussing the screw ups rather than pointing out what an improvement it is says it all.

Looks like Liverpool have done ok out of it.
I thought it would be good but have changed my mind.

 

[Swango1980]

Also, the first Liverpool goal v City at weekend. The debate seems to be, should City have had a penalty or not after it hit Alexander Arnold's hand in the build up. However, regardless if you say yes or no, if a goal is scored is it not disallowed automatically if it hits one of the attacking team's had in the build up, accidentally or not? I know it happened on the other side of pitch, but it was about 22 secs and part of the build up in which Liverpool scored.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Looks like Liverpool have done ok out of it.
I thought it would be good but have changed my mind.

It could've went against us had we not won at villa. Good goal wrongly offside and a blatant handball not given.

As for VAR stick it in the bin and let the Armchair fans suffer.

 

[Tashyboy]

It has been an utter farce. I was for it initially as I hoped it would help stamp out diving; quite the opposite, it seems to endorse it as the Deulofeu incident against Chelsea proved. Worst of all in that incident the match referee got it right (imo) only for VAR to rear its ugly head.

It seems particularly adept at finding toenails offside (Mount v Liverpool, Pulisic v. Liverpool, Sheffield Utd v. Spurs?, etc) yet doesn't get wound back far enough to account for someone so far offside there's clear daylight (Salah v. Southampton). Can't seem to pick up goalkeepers a yard off their line when the penalty is taken (Adrian v. Chelsea). And as a match going fan it is a complete and utter disaster, completely sucking the life out of celebrations (Azpilicueta v. Ajax & v.Liverpool).

It should have been able to clear up issues & pick out the cheats; instead it is being completely & utterly discredited by what appears to be extremely subjective use. The fact that we are all discussing the screw ups rather than pointing out what an improvement it is says it all.

Don't think that BIM goes far, quite frankly it is a shower of ***. A lot of people that comment on it, actually see it on the telly. Be it Sky, BT sport. For the three or four minutes it is debated, you have replays, commentators and pundits talking about what there looking for. VAR comes to a decision and sometimes it's massively wrong. The people/refs that's have been screwing up for years are screwing up VAR.
However, then you have the match going fans like me. There have been moments at City this year when games have been close, City v Spurs when City score and VAR Disallows it. Why, no one bloody knows why. It's like a state secret. Argue amongst yourself about whether it should of been allowed, but bloody stupid rules like attacker accidentally handles it which led to a goal. Jesus bloody Christ. The City V Villa game. KDB scores, Silva tells the ref he touched it. But the ref cannot tell the VAR guy. It should of been disallowed. But all this time fans. The people that pay a small fortune are kept in the dark. They don't know what VAR is looking for.
It has been a challenge taking myself and kids to a game the other side of the Pennines. I cannot get to next game, RBL course. My next three games are 17.30, 17.30 and 18.00 kick off times. plus ave got that bollox VAR to look forward to. So much so, this is my last season as a season ticket holder.
Yup, you can shove VAR.

 

[IanMcC]

I was vehemently opposed to its introduction, and from other fans I spoke to I was in the minority. I bet the feeling is different now!
If VAR has to be there, let the ref on the pitch be the ref! He intimates when he wants video assistance, makes his way to the touchline, views the incident, then makes a decision. Simples! Not some faceless wonder 70 miles away in a studio trying to be politically correct.
Blatter had his faults, but he was 100% correct when he said that nothing should be introduced to the game that cannot be replicated at every level. VAR cannot.
I love football, but have stopped watching EPL matches. You cannot even celebrate a goal properly, now. Half the time its chopped off!!

 

[Hobbit]

Supported it when it came in, and still support the concept of it. Without a doubt it needs improving, and it needs speeding up.

But for all the high profile cock-ups, I wonder how many times its made a positive difference?

 

[Swango1980]

Supported it when it came in, and still support the concept of it. Without a doubt it needs improving, and it needs speeding up.

But for all the high profile cock-ups, I wonder how many times its made a positive difference?

Interesting point. When you say "positive" difference, what you really mean is when it makes the correct decision. However, even if it makes the correct decision, you are going to have 1 set of fans feeling negative about it at that moment, even though it was right. So, when it makes correct decisions, I'm not sure we can say it is making a positive change, it just means that we are not blaming the referee or linesman when they make a terrible mistake. But, as we have seen, it tries to make a subjective decision and it all goes to hell. Even if you agree with what looks like a fairly obvious subjective decision, you can guarantee the manager it had a negative impact on, or the fans, will completely disagree with it anyway.

I still think the ref on the pitch needs to take control of it. Take responsibility. It is his face and reputation on the line, and they are highly trained. So, they should be professional enough to deal with it. I would be happy enough if it was scrapped, but if not are the key things that need to be changed as follows:

1. One man has to be in charge. The match referee. Anything that is subjective in the slightest, he must make the final decision.

2. The ref needs to have a microphone, and the fans at home know exactly what is being checked, and the logic behind the decision made

3. The fans in the stadium must be kept informed. Not sure if audio from the referee will help them. But, clear signs on the big screen (of course, this falls apart at stadiums with no big screen)

There seem to be good solutions made by everyone that could make it better than it is now. However, perhaps the biggest problem with no clear solution, is how to communicate with fans in the stadium. Also, I'm not sure if it is fair or not that some matches have VAR while others (lower league, international) do not. Or, when lower and higher clubs meet in the FA Cup, it is in force in some rounds or stadiums, but not in earlier rounds or smaller stadiums.

 

[clubchamp98]

Interesting point. When you say "positive" difference, what you really mean is when it makes the correct decision. However, even if it makes the correct decision, you are going to have 1 set of fans feeling negative about it at that moment, even though it was right. So, when it makes correct decisions, I'm not sure we can say it is making a positive change, it just means that we are not blaming the referee or linesman when they make a terrible mistake. But, as we have seen, it tries to make a subjective decision and it all goes to hell. Even if you agree with what looks like a fairly obvious subjective decision, you can guarantee the manager it had a negative impact on, or the fans, will completely disagree with it anyway.

I still think the ref on the pitch needs to take control of it. Take responsibility. It is his face and reputation on the line, and they are highly trained. So, they should be professional enough to deal with it. I would be happy enough if it was scrapped, but if not are the key things that need to be changed as follows:

1. One man has to be in charge. The match referee. Anything that is subjective in the slightest, he must make the final decision.

2. The ref needs to have a microphone, and the fans at home know exactly what is being checked, and the logic behind the decision made

3. The fans in the stadium must be kept informed. Not sure if audio from the referee will help them. But, clear signs on the big screen (of course, this falls apart at stadiums with no big screen)

There seem to be good solutions made by everyone that could make it better than it is now. However, perhaps the biggest problem with no clear solution, is how to communicate with fans in the stadium. Also, I'm not sure if it is fair or not that some matches have VAR while others (lower league, international) do not. Or, when lower and higher clubs meet in the FA Cup, it is in force in some rounds or stadiums, but not in earlier rounds or smaller stadiums.

Watched England last night with no VAR.
The game flowed better no stops.
Bit one sided but better to watch imo.

 

[Swango1980]

Watched England last night with no VAR.
The game flowed better no stops.
Bit one sided but better to watch imo.

Yeah. If VAR was in place, that would have been at least 7 VAR checks, given they do a check after every goal. At worst, had every goal had some sort of tight call to make, and 3 and a half minutes to decide for each one, the game would have taken an extra 24.5 minutes to complete.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah. If VAR was in place, that would have been at least 7 VAR checks, given they do a check after every goal. At worst, had every goal had some sort of tight call to make, and 3 and a half minutes to decide for each one, the game would have taken an extra 24.5 minutes to complete.

I do think one thing VAR should be used for is to stop anyone except the captains harassing the ref.
This was supposed to be stopped ,but seems worse now .
Everyone has an opinion but anyone seen to be trying to influence the ref during the VAR deliberations should get a yellow.