Methods of Ensuring Supplementary Cards are Registered Before Round - Foolproof?

Swango1980

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When I took over as handicap secretary last year, I was a little surprised at how casually certain things were done. For example, it was not uncommon for players to put cards in clearly after they had a good round (or being forced to by players around them). I know this is not a one off, as I know of one club locally who, after the social weekend comps players are demanded they hand in cards if they get a good score, but not if they shoot a bad score.

Anyway, I've found myself having to explain to numerous people that they can't just hand in cards AFTER the round only if it is a good score. This includes a player bordering on Cat 1 / Cat 2, who desperately wants to stay in Cat 1 to play in some of the more prestigious events in the County (although, also told him he can't hand them in anyway once he is in Cat 1, he has already got his "c" status).

However, in terms of Supplementary Cards, I haven't yet settled on a fool proof method of ensuring players sign in for their round before they go out. So, basically players (and only a handful put in supplementary cards) just put cards in to the box, and when I get up there I process them. I basically have to trust is was a legitimate round, and they were going to submit the card regardless of score (a bit like a member handing in their 3 cards for initial handicap). If I suspect this is not the case based on my own instinct, I'll ask the player.

Is there any fool proof method (or virtually fool proof) in which a handicap secretary can be almost certain that a player has registered before the round? I'm sure a lot of clubs have a book at the pro shop to register. We could do that, but the problem is we have nobody that works at the club that knows anything about golf, even the owner. We don't have a pro that works continually at the shop, and so it is just the bar staff that come and go. So, if a player was the type who only submitted their score AFTER the round, then they could quite easily sign into the book and just put an earlier sign in time, and nobody would be any the wiser. We have Club V1 and I note that you can use the terminal to sign in for supplementary rounds. Is this any better (i.e. I doubt you can falsify the Sign In time?). I suppose my only other thought is, I could request that players e-mail me directly before the round, although that is not exactly user friendly.

Ultimately, I'm usually happy to trust the intent of the players, and try to get the message across continually that you can't just put in a card in after you know what you scored (some players innocently simply don't realise this, especially inexperienced players). But, the reason why I need to get a handle on it is, when WHS comes in, I don't want to suddenly see a huge amount of cards start coming in (as players think they need to hand them in), but finding a load of players will simply rip them up if the score is not what they want. Also, given that Cat 1 players have no more restrictions, and in relation to another post I commented in, I'd be worried that the more elite golfers could take advantage of not having to sign in, and easily falsifying a sign in time. Perhaps, if I cannot find a fool proof method to guarantee a player has registered before the round, I could at least have a backstop policy by stating, at our club, if your handicap index is below, say 5.0, then I need to be contacted directly before round, whether it be my e-mail, text, etc.
 
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Either use the pro shop or use your PSI

For a supplementary card at our place you go into the pro shop and they enter you - I don’t process any card that hasn’t been entered into the book by pro shop

You can also do it on the PSI for IG and also Club V1
 

Roops

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Buy a little time stamp machine and have a little chit by the box. The player has to time stamp and write name on chit and drop it in the box before they start their round. Then they do the same with the card at the end of the round. You match them up, job done. No card afterwards, you will soon see who is a bit iffy after the claim they lost their card 5th time in a row........... :)
 

Swango1980

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Either use the pro shop or use your PSI

For a supplementary card at our place you go into the pro shop and they enter you - I don’t process any card that hasn’t been entered into the book by pro shop

You can also do it on the PSI for IG and also Club V1
Cheers

I'd have to go down the PSI line then, and just hope it isn't frozen on the day, or the owners have, for some reason, turned it off. Not uncommon. The problem with signing in is that, I suspect many golfers go out without even signing in and paying for their round (most members are on a cheap annual deal, which means they have to pay a small amount each round), so I can't expect the staff to ensure they sign in for the Supplementary Card
 

Swango1980

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Buy a little time stamp machine and have a little chit by the box. The player has to time stamp and write name on chit and drop it in the box before they start their round. Then they do the same with the card at the end of the round. You match them up, job done. No card afterwards, you will soon see who is a bit iffy after the claim they lost their card 5th time in a row........... :)
Interesting idea, I think I like it
 

doublebogey7

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We use the Club V1 PSI, which shows me both the sign-in time and the time the score is entered. Not foolproof of course as the player could sign in after round and then wait in the clubhouse for the next four hours and then enter the score, but they're easier ways to get a false handicap.
 

duncan mackie

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Currently it's a book that you sign before you go out - no one really needs to know anything about golf to manage this. What happens to cards/scores that are then returned (or not) will be down to individual clubs and circumstances.

No point in double guessing WHS at all. You may be required to register and return scores on terminals, or apps, using software fields that don't exist currently...
 

Swango1980

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Couldn't they just send you a text or email before they go out expressing their intention to play a supplementary round?
They could, and that may not be an issue now or under WHS. However, if we ever get to a stage where golfers are expected to more frequently enter scores from social rounds (such as in the USA), I don't really want to be getting dozens of texts / e-mails every day, especially throughout the summer. I'm committed to do the role as handicap secretary as best as I can, but I'm not quite that committed. But, as I said on a post above, I could maybe implement this method for the very low handicappers at least, given the importance of their handicap at County Level. To be honest, at my club there are only 2-3 golfers at that level, and none of them would be anywhere near representing the county
 

patricks148

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all the comps at Nairn Dunbar who use HDID you have to sign in before playing and it records the time you signed in or at Nairn we have a book in the pro shop the memeber of staff has to complete with the time, with the book you can easily check when someone went out against the tee times
 

Orikoru

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They could, and that may not be an issue now or under WHS. However, if we ever get to a stage where golfers are expected to more frequently enter scores from social rounds (such as in the USA), I don't really want to be getting dozens of texts / e-mails every day, especially throughout the summer. I'm committed to do the role as handicap secretary as best as I can, but I'm not quite that committed. But, as I said on a post above, I could maybe implement this method for the very low handicappers at least, given the importance of their handicap at County Level. To be honest, at my club there are only 2-3 golfers at that level, and none of them would be anywhere near representing the county
Fair enough, but it's not as if you have to answer the emails. Just set up a new email address clubnamesupplementary@gmail or something, then later cross reference the cards you receive with the emails in the inbox.
 

Swango1980

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Fair enough, but it's not as if you have to answer the emails. Just set up a new email address clubnamesupplementary@gmail or something, then later cross reference the cards you receive with the emails in the inbox.
Yeah, there would be methods. Texts would be a nightmare, even if I don't need to respond. I'm a member of a few facebook and whatsapp groups, and I know how annoying it can get when messages keep popping up when other members of the group go crazy with random comments. And, I would have to check the texts, because no doubt some members may text to try and get an answer to some sort of question, bound to happen (same true for e-mail I guess).

I could set up an independent e-mail address as well, but that could be a bit of a pain in the neck for some golfers compared to other methods, and I don't want to make things difficult if I can avoid it.

It looks like I could just try and see if Club V1 PSI screen is the way forward, and try to hammer home that it NEEDS TO STAY ON AT ALL TIMES. I did like the Time Stamp Machine though
 

Grant85

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I personally would just go with the book in the pro-shop and tell everyone that a supplementary has to be registered before play, all holes holed out, card has to be signed etc all correctly. If people cheat, then they cheat - and they also need another member to cheat along with them. It does sound a bit like a culture thing, where people want to ensure they are playing with people who have as low a handicap as reflects their ability. If they saw this as genuinely dishonest, the vast vast majority would accept it.

Obviously you have to tell the staff in the pro-shop what the book is, but even if someone wasn't a golfer they could still understand the process.
Appreciate it's still open to abuse but short of having a slightly over the top system whereby people have to e-mail or register on a terminal before their round.

And remember if people cheat, it's pretty much to get them a vanity handicap. So although it might get them entry into a few additional events (this will impact a very small number of people), it's not going to help them actually win competitions ahead of 'honest' people. So don't sweat it as much. All you can do is set the rules and expect people to follow them.
 

Bunkermagnet

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Dont forget texts can sometimes take 3 days to go through, and emails aren't always instant.
If there's a touch screen for members, then there's your answer:)
 

rulefan

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Why not have a book at the bar? All the bar staff have to do is check/confirm the time entered. I'm afraid the CONGU rules do require you to have a procedure.
 

doublebogey7

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I would strongly recommend the use of your PSI. Under the WHS all scores must be entered on your system on the day the round has been played. If you use some form of manual system for signing in and cards simply handed in for entering by the committee then you are going to be hard pushed to get them all entered on the day of play.
 

rulefan

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Actually under WHS it is not compulsory to enter them on the day. But if they are not, they will not be included in the PCC for the day. But with only a few cards I suspect it would not make any difference.
 

Swango1980

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I would strongly recommend the use of your PSI. Under the WHS all scores must be entered on your system on the day the round has been played. If you use some form of manual system for signing in and cards simply handed in for entering by the committee then you are going to be hard pushed to get them all entered on the day of play.
Yeah, again this has crossed my mind. As rulefan said, this will probably not be a big issue at all if I get the same amount of supplementary cards as I do now. In the summer, a maybe only get a handful at most each week.

As mentioned on other posts though, if players could directly enter their score into the system on the day under WHS, my only concern would be the impact on PCC if it later turns out that they entered their score incorrectly, once their card is checked. Unfortunately it is not an uncommon thing to happen in competitions, so I shouldn't come to expect much better accuracy when it comes to entering supplementary cards, especially when many of the golfers may be even more inexperienced at using the system or being aware of the importance of being 100% accurate.

But, I do agree, that under WHS that supplementary cards really ought to be entered on the day, and so maybe this is something we'll just have to live with. Maybe 1 or 2 incorrect scores, even if massively incorrect, will not make a significant change to PCC anyway, so it would be no big deal, and then when the error is identified it can be corrected to ensure the individuals handicap is correct without impacting on anybody elses scores on that day.
 
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We have a book which you have to sign before going out ... not sure what they do if you don’t return a card, as I always have, but I guess they seek an explanation. We also use iG and I understand that it has a facility for prior sign in, although I haven’t personally used it.
 

jim8flog

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We have a book which has tear out daily sheets which is kept in the pro shop.

(I hope ) the handicap secretary then tears the sheet out of the book to do a comparison before inputting appropriate score or a 0.1 increase if the card has not been returned.
 
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