Unattested Card - Penalty Score

[Canary Kid]

Could somebody please help me with a WHS matter.

A couple of weeks ago, I played at another course (i.e. not my home course) with my school old boys golf society. In order to speed up my effort to get to 20 cards, I decided to put in a card for my round. I was playing with player who is a member at another club, and who has a WHS handicap and, as he was marking my card for the event, I asked him if he could attest my card and he agreed. At the end of the round, I entered my score, but he was unable to open the MyEG app on his phone in order to attest it as he couldn’t remember his password. However, he undertook to sort it out later and attest my score. A couple of days later, I got a reminder from EG that the score was still unattested. I emailed the other player but, before I got a response from him, I got another email from EG to say “The score you submitted has been added to your record, but flagged as a penalty score due to having no attester”.

Shortly after, the other player got in touch to say that, when he finally got into the EG app, there was no score to attest … presumably because EG had removed the invite to attest it following their second email. I emailed my club’s handicap Secretary about the matter, but have had no reply.

The score was nothing special (34 points) and has been included in my record - indeed, it is a counting score - but I am wondering about the implications of a “penalty score”. Anyone know? Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

To clarify, you scored 34 points but is that the score that was recorded in your playing record or did the 'penalty' adjust it in some way?

 

[wjemather]

Could somebody please help me with a WHS matter.

A couple of weeks ago, I played at another course (i.e. not my home course) with my school old boys golf society. In order to speed up my effort to get to 20 cards, I decided to put in a card for my round. I was playing with player who is a member at another club, and who has a WHS handicap and, as he was marking my card for the event, I asked him if he could attest my card and he agreed. At the end of the round, I entered my score, but he was unable to open the MyEG app on his phone in order to attest it as he couldn’t remember his password. However, he undertook to sort it out later and attest my score. A couple of days later, I got a reminder from EG that the score was still unattested. I emailed the other player but, before I got a response from him, I got another email from EG to say “The score you submitted has been added to your record, but flagged as a penalty score due to having no attester”.

Shortly after, the other player got in touch to say that, when he finally got into the EG app, there was no score to attest … presumably because EG had removed the invite to attest it following their second email. I emailed my club’s handicap Secretary about the matter, but have had no reply.

The score was nothing special (34 points) and has been included in my record - indeed, it is a counting score - but I am wondering about the implications of a “penalty score”. Anyone know? Thanks.

I'm not sure this should be flagged as a "penalty score" since it is your actual score. Penalty scores are supposed to be in place of, or in addition to, actual scores that are incomplete or missing without a valid reason for being so, or when handicap manipulation is suspected. However, the EG process flow says that the actual score is marked as a penalty score when attestation is missing via the MyEG app (although, inconsistently, this is not the case for missing attestation for scores submitted via club software).

Several penalty scores on a handicap record would be an indication that a player is not adhering to their responsibilities under the rules of handicapping. The player's handicap committee should be following up with them to assist in rectifying whatever problem there is; should problems persist, the committee would then take further action (e.g. suspension of handicap index).

 

[Canary Kid]

To clarify, you scored 34 points but is that the score that was recorded in your playing record or did the 'penalty' adjust it in some way?

The score was not adjusted in any way by EG. Thanks wjemather … am I right in thinking that it is simply a marker so that, if there are other instances, action should be taken? If so, I will still try and get the marker removed by my club’s Handicap Secretary as I wasn’t at fault, but there will be no other instances. In future I shall ensure that my attester has his EG app open and ready before pressing “submit score”! One bitten, twice shy!

 

[chrisd]

I had the same/similar situation a while back except I put a card in the box as it was a comp at my own club. I spoke to the guys in the pro shop and they were able to go in to the system and rectify the " unattested card" situation for me

 

[wjemather]

The score was not adjusted in any way by EG. Thanks wjemather … am I right in thinking that it is simply a marker so that, if there are other instances, action should be taken? If so, I will still try and get the marker removed by my club’s Handicap Secretary as I wasn’t at fault, but there will be no other instances. In future I shall ensure that my attester has his EG app open and ready before pressing “submit score”! One bitten, twice shy!

Only partly; it's more about ensuring pre-registered rounds have scores associated with them (unless there is a valid reason for the score being unacceptable).

Since this part of the EG's automated process doesn't seem consistent with the rules, I'd say asking for the flag to be removed is a valid request.

 

[wjemather]

I had the same/similar situation a while back except I put a card in the box as it was a comp at my own club. I spoke to the guys in the pro shop and they were able to go in to the system and rectify the " unattested card" situation for me

You would need to contact the committee - it's not often that that would include the pro shop, even if they do much of the administration for competitions.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

The score was not adjusted in any way by EG. Thanks wjemather … am I right in thinking that it is simply a marker so that, if there are other instances, action should be taken? If so, I will still try and get the marker removed by my club’s Handicap Secretary as I wasn’t at fault, but there will be no other instances. In future I shall ensure that my attester has his EG app open and ready before pressing “submit score”! One bitten, twice shy!

yes you are I'm afraid

 

[IanMcC]

Any Unsatisfied Score Intents are given a penalty score of CH + CR after 4 days in the system.
As you have gross scores for all 18 holes, no adjustment would be made in your case.
You should insist with your Handicap Committee that the Penalty Score flag is removed from this round. You don't really want them on your record if you can help it, as it may give auditors the wrong impression.

 

[Old Skier]

One of the more annoying aspects of the automatic penalty score email sent out by EG is it isn’t also sent to the HC Sec/Club Sec which could stop a lot of problems.

 

[Foxholer]

The score was not adjusted in any way by EG. Thanks wjemather … am I right in thinking that it is simply a marker so that, if there are other instances, action should be taken? If so, I will still try and get the marker removed by my club’s Handicap Secretary as I wasn’t at fault, but there will be no other instances. In future I shall ensure that my attester has his EG app open and ready before pressing “submit score”! One bitten, twice shy!

yes you are I'm afraid

At fault....No.
Responsible for...Yes.

 

[Canary Kid]

yes you are I'm afraid

No I wasn’t! My attester was at fault. I submitted the card correctly, but he failed to attest the score despite agreeing to do so before I submitted it.

 

[IanMcC]

One of the more annoying aspects of the automatic penalty score email sent out by EG is it isn’t also sent to the HC Sec/Club Sec which could stop a lot of problems.

A report can be run on Clubhouse (or the England/Scotland Golf equivalent) to see all Penalty Scores in a set time period. Also, a report can be run on Unsatisfied Score Intents, and Deleted Score Intents. This should be enough for any vigilant M&H secretary to make sense of it.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

No I wasn’t! My attester was at fault. I submitted the card correctly, but he failed to attest the score despite agreeing to do so before I submitted it.

That IS your responsibility, whether you want to pass blame or not, it IS down to you

 

[Canary Kid]

At fault....No.
Responsible for...Yes.

I would agree with that.

 

[Foxholer]

I would agree with that.

Same applies to Orikuro's hypothetical lost ball. That's the way Golf works. There's a cheesy comparison to 'life' available too!

 

[Canary Kid]

That IS your responsibility, whether you want to pass blame or not, it IS down to you

I would agree, but that’s not what you originally said, is it?

 

[IanMcC]

A photo of the card emailed to the M&H Secretary with a brief explanation would have sorted this out.

 

[Old Skier]

A report can be run on Clubhouse (or the England/Scotland Golf equivalent) to see all Penalty Scores in a set time period. Also, a report can be run on Unsatisfied Score Intents, and Deleted Score Intents. This should be enough for any vigilant M&H secretary to make sense of it.

I appreciate reports can be run but as most HC members are volunteers an easier method is to be included in an email, just my view.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

To answer your original question there are no implications about having a penalty score on your record. It is treated the same way as any other score and will eventually disappear from your record as other scores are recorded. Usually the CR + CH total gets into the best 8 so the HI often goes down (unless it spills a good score).

Interestingly we were discussing this at our last Handicap Committee as we have sanctions for repeated no-returns in competitions but nothing for repeat penalty scores. Similarly to the OP most of ours have resulted from IT related issues involving unsatisfied score intents and some basic explanation / help / education fixes the problem. We have found no evidence of manipulation via USI thus far.

We decided not to publish any sanctions but increase reminders and review at the end of the year.