chrisd
Major Champion
We sat in a Herne Bay restaurant and listened to him sing " Ernie, the fastest milkman in the west" to his family one evening - brassed off cos ge knew more words than I did ??
Random Irritations
- Thread starter Blue in Munich
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We sat in a Herne Bay restaurant and listened to him sing " Ernie, the fastest milkman in the west" to his family one evening - brassed off cos ge knew more words than I did ??
chrisd
Major Champion
Awesome player, playing on awful winter pitches with defenders trying to maim him and definitely one of the best ever players
Slime
Tour Winner
Of course he'd make a best UK side, and yes, a flawed genius, but he'd still be in the side.
What he used to do with a football like a medicine ball, in six inches of mud with no protection from referees was beyond belief.
I'd always argue against it.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Of course you would - you have bias , but doesn’t touch the best ever top ten for me and certainly I can’t see many if any beyond a UTD fan having in top 3
Pele, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, di Stefano, Maradona, Messi, Puskas, Ronaldo, Ronaldo, Zidane - I really can’t see who drops out from that list to put him in
Not sure that team is very balanced though ?.
Always harsh that defenders are largely ignored in these lists. Beckenbauer usually gets a mention but no Maldini, Lahm, Baresi, Cannavaro, Thuram. No keepers either. Always the pretty boys.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Absolutely impossible to rank players from different eras, different leagues and different positions.
The 442 listing smacks of a bunch of hipster journalists trying to prove how in touch they are with the historical element of the game.
How can they compare, for example, Messi with Matthews?
How many of them will have ever seen the latter play?
And FWIW I would certainly consider George Best to be superior to the Brazilian Ronaldo but I couldn't begin to compare either of them to Beckenbauer, a completely different player.
The 442 listing smacks of a bunch of hipster journalists trying to prove how in touch they are with the historical element of the game.
How can they compare, for example, Messi with Matthews?
How many of them will have ever seen the latter play?
And FWIW I would certainly consider George Best to be superior to the Brazilian Ronaldo but I couldn't begin to compare either of them to Beckenbauer, a completely different player.
Slime
Tour Winner
Yeah, of course I do, and you don't? Surely everyone does to some degree.
I'd certainly put him above Beckenbauer, Cruyff, di Stefano, Puskas, the Brazillian Ronaldo & Zidane, certainly alongside Messi and possibly Maradona.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Sorry which Liverpool player did i put in to show my bias ?
And Ronaldo will never get the credit for just how good he was - his record is just outstanding.
Better than Cruyff ?! Zidane ?! Best was good from what I have seen of him
For me, the problem Best has is that whilst often described as a winger, he was played more forward. In a 442 he gets nowhere near a team imo as he didn’t score enough to oust either Ronaldo‘s (Brazilian being Imo massively underrated by many), Pele or Maldini.
His other issue, which is harsh but undeniable imo is his nationality. He never did it on the intl stage. Which is another reason why Messi in the long term will fall below Maradonna (he already does In the opinion of many Argentinians).
if the team picked was based on a 4231 formation then I’d say he has a chance, but a 442. No chance imo.
His other issue, which is harsh but undeniable imo is his nationality. He never did it on the intl stage. Which is another reason why Messi in the long term will fall below Maradonna (he already does In the opinion of many Argentinians).
if the team picked was based on a 4231 formation then I’d say he has a chance, but a 442. No chance imo.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Back on topic....
A pretty random one -
"off of"
Commentators, just for once go with just "off"
Told ya
A pretty random one -
"off of"
Commentators, just for once go with just "off"
Told ya
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
442 is the title of the publication not, in this case, a tactical formation.
They have not selected a team but 50 top players of the ages.
Ah, that’ll teach me for not reading it all.
He‘s in the top 50,surely?
**will go have a look now. **
Edit to say that having seen the OP on it. I can see why Best isnt mentioned. If you were to pick the 10 best of all time. They can’t all be forwards and best isn’t top in his category imo.
Further edit.
just seen the top 50.
typical media love in of Messi. I think it’s a fair debate between Ronaldo and Messi. If we are gonna accept that they’re the top two now, the difference is so small that imo You. Ant put others between them. So either they’re the top two. Or they’re 5/6 behind legends of the game such as Pele, Cruyff and Maradonna.
Slime
Tour Winner
a) You don't have to apologise.
b) You didn't put a Liverpool player in.
It's not about records, it's about ability.
Best played for a national team of very little standing which doesn't help, but his pure footballing ability was just incredible.
And yes, I'd certainly have him well above Cruyff and Zidane.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
For me Messi isn't the best Argentinian.
That honour would have to go to Maradona for his achievements at more than one club and for his country.
chellie
Tour Winner
Random irritations thread turning into a football thread.
robinthehood
Hacker
Pele said George Best was the best. That's good enough for me.
chrisd
Major Champion
Best played across the front line and often as an inside forward. He was amazing given the conditions he played in and I always look at who was the best without worrying about the position they played in. If it was the best team I'd go Messi as he's done wonderful things over a longer period but the shame is that Best wasnt shown live on TV often enough.
i dont see Maradona above Messi ever, only aggrieved Argentinians would not see Messi as the best forward ever imo and just above Best in the pecking order
I guess it depends how you measure it. Intl is the main stage Imo. Do you rate the guy that’s only ever shone in Europe. Or the guy who shone everwhere and one a World Cup almost single handed?
Your first point is where it always gets tricky. yu could counter the argument of his skill but saying that he managed to run past payers who blatantly weren’t as athletic as the defenders top payers face now.....
Le Tissier for example had no pace but still made quick defender look silly. And no I’m not putting him in the conversation, just showing how it’s hard to judge over time.
Slime
Tour Winner
Sorry Chellie, I just didn't expect my random irritation to have stirred up such a hornets' nest.
chrisd
Major Champion
I measure it simply on how I saw them. Best didnt play for a high profile national team but just remembering the skills of Best and Maradona I'd say little to choose one from the other, they were imo both better than Cruyff. Defenders are certainly quicker in the modern era, but back then they were brutal and Best and Maradona were too good for them just as Messi is today. Le Tiss, I believe was hugely under rated - not a Best, Maradona, Messi etc etc but a wonderful player and goalscorer.
