Random Irritations

[Crazyface]

Received an email this morning saying that my dentist is now going private and no longer taking nhs patients

Ouch! I'm surprised there is any dentists still wanting to do NHS work. The cost of private is eyewatering ( I know someone who goes private. Lord does she know how to waste money!)

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Dentists should all do more NHS work!

Except......

The NHS total dental budget is capped by the government both at the total level and for every individual surgery. A dentist cannot just choose to do more NHS work even if they want to (which, to be fair, most don't want, as the terms are so bad) - every single NHS dentist's budget is capped at a maximum. Do more NHS work than your allocation and you still pay all the costs of building, equipping and running the practice yourself but receive no payment at all. So you go bankrupt.

The government can choose to increase that budget and commision more dentistry if they wish of course. Have they?

If anyone wants to put this into numbers:

In 2000 the whole NHS budget was about £55bn and within that the spend on dentistry in was £3bn.
In 2025 the whole NHS budget had increased to £205bn.
If dentistry had simply retained its share of the overall NHS budget then the NHS would now be spending £11bn on it.
The NHS spend on dentistry in 2025 was .............. £3bn.

So 0% increase in 25 years before inflation. Remember what inflation has done in that time (with inflation, costs have gone up roughly 116% in that time)
Imagine what hospital services, GPs or any other area would be like if they had only 40% of the budget (in real terms) that they had in 2000.....

The government (of all political parties) wants to remove high street dentistry from the NHS in order to save money but doesn't want to be honest about that fact as it is a massive vote loser. So they are slowly starving it to death instead.

I take this on board, and clearly, if figures are correct ( no reason to think they aren’t), then N H S dentistry is underfunded.
However, the charges that private patients are paying are eye watering . And I find it difficult to believe they have be that high.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Ouch! I'm surprised there is any dentists still wanting to do NHS work. The cost of private is eyewatering ( I know someone who goes private. Lord does she know how to waste money!)

It’s keeps her mouth healthy and she sees the value in that then it’s not a waste of money it’ll be worth every penny.

 

[The Squirrel]

I take this on board, and clearly, if figures are correct ( no reason to think they aren’t), then N H S dentistry is underfunded.
However, the charges that private patients are paying are eye watering . And I find it difficult to believe they have be that high.

I can 100% see how people think that. They're so used to NHS dental prices as their frame of reference. Remember that these are (a) subsidised, (b) ultra-high-speed and (c) even with subsidy they often don't cover costs (that's exactly why NHS dentistry is gradually disappearing). I also get that nobody likes to pay more for anything, especially something like dentistry that's not exactly in the category of "fun and enjoyment", so in no world will paying anything towards dentistry, never mind the full cost, ever be anything other than very unpopular. People especially don't like paying for healthcare in the UK as there's a collective belief that this is wrong or that they've paid already through taxes - we've been sold the lie that the NHS is "free at the point of delivery" for so many decades.
(this oft-repeated-by-politicians phrase quietly ignores the fact that it's completely untrue; the 3 most frequent recurring NHS interactions for most people are: prescriptions, dentists and opticians - and there have been charges on all of these for 75 YEARS now!)

It costs between £150 and 250 per hour to run each dental chair and the surgery/staff around it, something you can confirm via google. That's without making any profit - just covering costs, and those costs still mount even when patients no-show or cancel at short notice, so actual hourly pricing rates have to be higher just to break even and stay open. Have a look at the pricing you believe to be unjustified through that lens. You can also benchmark against comparable cost-base countries and see that UK dental charges are about the same (Ireland, Singapore) lower (Australia, Canada) or much lower (USA) than those.

Sorry, I fully accept that's probably not what you wanted to hear

 

[Red devil]

I went to go out Thursday night and as I started the car I heard a big bang.
Front tyre had blown but being dark I couldn’t see a lot.
So got up yesterday and had a look and one of the coils from the front suspension has snapped and popped the tyre.
I have been saying for years that as soon as something goes on the car I would replace it so rather than getting the coils/suspension fixed I have scrapped the car. (I have had it 10 years and it was old when I got it).

Having a little look yesterday for a new car and the wife decided she doesn’t like her car much so could she have the nice new car and I have hers?

So now she is looking for a new car and I get hers.

Not sure quite what’s happened there

Been had off matey. Your Mrs is streets ahead of you.

 

[KenL]

I take this on board, and clearly, if figures are correct ( no reason to think they aren’t), then N H S dentistry is underfunded.
However, the charges that private patients are paying are eye watering . And I find it difficult to believe they have be that high.

Not as over the top as vet fees or car servicing.

 

[HampshireHog]

I take this on board, and clearly, if figures are correct ( no reason to think they aren’t), then N H S dentistry is underfunded.
However, the charges that private patients are paying are eye watering . And I find it difficult to believe they have be that high.

No such thing as a poor dentist

 

[irip]

Been had off matey. Your Mrs is streets ahead of you.

I’m not suprised she streets ahead, she is in my new car and I’m walking

 

[KenL]

No such thing as a poor dentist

Why should there be? Very difficult to get into uni and those who have their own practice have to take risks.

Plenty in the private sector are far more overpaid than any healthcare professional.
Plenty earning more than £100k for not doing that much in my opinion.

ps high suicide rate in dentistry and back problems too.

 

[HampshireHog]

Why should there be? Very difficult to get into uni and those who have their own practice have to take risks.

Plenty in the private sector are far more overpaid than any healthcare professional.
Plenty earning more than £100k for not doing that much in my opinion.

ps high suicide rate in dentistry and back problems too.

It’s not much of a risk working in a market where demand far outstrips supply.

Private dentistry is a disgrace every dentist should be carrying out an amount of NHS work and upselling specific optional treatments on private.

It’s fundamentally wrong a dentist can turn round and say it’s now going to cost double for me to treat you, when you can’t find another NHS dentist.

 

[KenL]

It’s not much of a risk working in a market where demand far outstrips supply.

Private dentistry is a disgrace every dentist should be carrying out an amount of NHS work and upselling specific optional treatments on private.

It’s fundamentally wrong a dentist can turn round and say it’s now going to cost double for me to treat you, when you can’t find another NHS dentist.

Fundamentally wrong no, annoying yes.

On the risk front, I was talking about the huge cost of taking on a building and the cost to kit out a surgery. I bet that is minimum £50k for one.

A lot of dental practices (like vet surgeries) have been taken over by big corporate companies, they are keen on higher prices and not taking nhs.

 

[jim8flog]

Our club lounge has tables to seat 6 and one big table to seat 10 (plus extra when the room is needed by squeezing up).

Walked in today to see a group of 4 sat at the table for ten with several 6 seater tables available.

 

[Billysboots]

Our club lounge has tables to seat 6 and one big table to seat 10 (plus extra when the room is needed by squeezing up).

Walked in today to see a group of 4 sat at the table for ten with several 6 seater tables available.

Same in our local pub last night.

Table for two empty, table for four with one bloke sitting there. We went in with our son and his girlfriend and had to stand.

 

[HampshireHog]

Fundamentally wrong no, annoying yes.

On the risk front, I was talking about the huge cost of taking on a building and the cost to kit out a surgery. I bet that is minimum £50k for one.

A lot of dental practices (like vet surgeries) have been taken over by big corporate companies, they are keen on higher prices and not taking nhs.

I’m afraid we will have to disagree on the morality of price gouging the public for a basic level of service.

Kitting out a surgery is an investment and given that the pricing model for most modern equipment is transactional and paid for by the patient in advance of the dentist being billed the risk is not as great as you might think.