Putting with the flag in....

[inc0gnito]

I've seen so many putts that would have dropped had they left the flag in. I really don't see any reason to have it out , unless it's leaning a bit dodgy.
And there are even some who still want it tended , now that is ridiculous.

Sometimes people use the person tending the flag as an aiming point when there is break. Doubt the average player bothers with that though.

 

[jim8flog]

Repairing the damage to the hole before I leave the green (mainly made by players in front of us) is probably outweighing any gain in time saved by leaving the flag in.

As per usual there is one guy in our group who gets repeatedly told about the damage he is doing but as always it falls upon death ears with him.

 

[pendodave]

We all keep it in within my normal group. Works fine and deffo a few have dropped after giving it a rap.
No obvious hole damage observed.
When I play a knockout, or with people who have different habits, I just keep it where it is (in or out) to minimise the faff. I take the view that if you're looking for excuses to miss putts, you'll probably find them somewhere, regardless..

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Nope he is correct!

Why?

 

[Coffey]

In your opinion.

May be my opinion but it is the right opinion.

There is absolutely no need for the flag to go in and out multiple times.

 

[srixon 1]

It ha made no difference whatsoever to the pace of play in my opinion. The only change is terminology. It used to be "out or tended?" Now it is "in or out?"

 

[6535]

funny comment from someone who has never seen me putt. (personal best being 23 putts in a round)

And also a 50ft putt that would of gone 10ft past, isn’t that a putting issue?

 

[njt1986]

If I’m on my own I keep it in, saves messing about. If I’m playing with someone I’ll generally go with what their preference is.

I tend to play “ready golf” and if I’m on the green before someone else is ready I’ll try to get my putt away with the flag in then remove it for them.

I’m completely in agreement with others though when they say they wouldn’t bother with it in and out constantly, just slows things down.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

It feels weird but I feel it helps.

 

[doublebogey7]

I presume the tests that concluded putting with the flag in would speed up play without affecting the chances of holing a putt did not test for this real-world case. I have seen some clubs using rims around the top inch of the cup, which I presume are intended to save the edge from damage. Maybe they should be mandatory, or is there some downside to them ?

Yes, the hole would no longer meet the rules definition of a hole i.e. "If a lining is used, its outer diameter must not exceed 4 ¼ inches (108 mm). The lining must be sunk at least 1 inch (25.4 mm) below the putting green surface"

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

May be my opinion but it is the right opinion.

There is absolutely no need for the flag to go in and out multiple times.

Some like it in, some like it out. End of.

 

[Backsticks]

Yes, the hole would no longer meet the rules definition of a hole i.e. "If a lining is used, its outer diameter must not exceed 4 ¼ inches (108 mm). The lining must be sunk at least 1 inch (25.4 mm) below the putting green surface"

Thanks. And also, wow. SO those clubs should not be using those liners that come to the top, even if the diameter.
Hard to see lots of holes not ending up damaged. That it is a simple thing to pick your ball out without damaging the hole is by the way - the reality is that not everyone is going to do that, and so will damage holes for everyone behind them. With potentially a couple of hundred people on a course in a day, the chances of everyone taking the necessary care are non existent.
What I was wondering is whether the USGA/R&A tested or took this aspect into account when changing the rule. Its fine for pro tournaments, where a greenkeeper turns up to repair any damage to a hole - that just wont happen for the rest of the golfing world, so we end up playing with damaged holes whether conforming or not.

 

[rulefan]

If it becomes an issue they could simply allow liners to be upto 5mm from the top and of 1mm gauge

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Again - just crazy.

You might think so - but we don't. One of our four on Saturday was a flag out for putts of under 3ft - the rest of us didn't bother one way or another - if it was out it stayed out - if it was in (most of the time) it stayed in. But I was always ready to take it out when our 'in lad' had a 3fter or less and was about to putt. Did not result in any 'flag dancing' or delay

 

[cliveb]

My club has two sets of flagsticks.

The day-to-day ones are thin and quite flexible (fibreglass, I think), and I've grown used to putting with the flag in at all times - even short putts. You can ram the ball against the pin and it will drop.

There is a set of competition flagsticks that come out for the majors. These are tapered aluminium and have no "give". On a couple of occasions I've rattled a short putt against them and the ball has deflected out. I'm sure it only happened because the ball hit the side of the pin - not head on. But I am also certain those putts would have dropped against the day-to-day pins.

So I now consider the nature of the flagstick when deciding whether to have it in or out.

 

[patricks148]

My club has two sets of flagsticks.

The day-to-day ones are thin and quite flexible (fibreglass, I think), and I've grown used to putting with the flag in at all times - even short putts. You can ram the ball against the pin and it will drop.

There is a set of competition flagsticks that come out for the majors. These are tapered aluminium and have no "give". On a couple of occasions I've rattled a short putt against them and the ball has deflected out. I'm sure it only happened because the ball hit the side of the pin - not head on. But I am also certain those putts would have dropped against the day-to-day pins.

So I now consider the nature of the flagstick when deciding whether to have it in or out.

Thanks Bryson

 

[cliveb]

Yes, the hole would no longer meet the rules definition of a hole i.e. "If a lining is used, its outer diameter must not exceed 4 ¼ inches (108 mm). The lining must be sunk at least 1 inch (25.4 mm) below the putting green surface"

I think there's a caveat to that rule, which states that the liner must be 1 inch below the surface unless the condition of the soil means it is impractical (or some such wording to that effect).

 

[garyinderry]

My club has two sets of flagsticks.

The day-to-day ones are thin and quite flexible (fibreglass, I think), and I've grown used to putting with the flag in at all times - even short putts. You can ram the ball against the pin and it will drop.

There is a set of competition flagsticks that come out for the majors. These are tapered aluminium and have no "give". On a couple of occasions I've rattled a short putt against them and the ball has deflected out. I'm sure it only happened because the ball hit the side of the pin - not head on. But I am also certain those putts would have dropped against the day-to-day pins.

So I now consider the nature of the flagstick when deciding whether to have it in or out.[/QUOTE]


Bryson will tell you that the more rigid flags do infect reject the ball that much more than the flexible sticks which absorb the energy and allow the ball to drop.

A trade off is flexible flag poles lean and can lean excessively to one side and help to keep a ball out.
A rigid flag by definition will stand in the centre of the cup and putts hitting it have an excellent chance of dropping.

 

[cliveb]

Bryson will tell you that the more rigid flags do infect reject the ball that much more than the flexible sticks which absorb the energy and allow the ball to drop.

Oh no! Please don't tell me I'm playing like Bryson
I swear I've never taken 2 minutes to miss a putt.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A flagstick moving around in a stronger wind is going to present a bit of a distraction. Links guys will tell us if that is a real consideration for the short putts.

In the unusually windy conditions experienced last weekend I'm thinking an oscillating flagstick might have contributed to me missing an 18" putt - or it might just have been a rubbish putt.