ScienceBoy
Money List Winner
If you are not in a competition it does not matter...
We all have played football with those plastic things you buy at the beach or tennis with a "tennis ball" that cost 50p for three.
We all have played football with those plastic things you buy at the beach or tennis with a "tennis ball" that cost 50p for three.
Crow
Crow Person
So from what I've read, TaylorMade are aiming to become the next Dunlop of the golf equipment world?
need_my_wedge
Has Now Found His Wedgie
"Probubly the best equipment story.....Ever?!"
Thought this was about new Carlsberg golf gear.......
In all honesty, I don't really care if TM want to R&D non conforming clubs, or sell them. I'm sure they are not the only manufacturer that wants to do this. It might even make it more fun to play the odd game with some of the clubs to see how much better i can play. My concerns come with breaching the rules of golf. Like anything with rules, the rules have usually been drafted up and put in place over time, usually to improve a game or make something safer, or level a playing field in competition to ensure that all competitors use similar equipment, relying on their individual skill to win.
If people start playing with gear that does not conform to the rules, how do you police it when they think they're improved enough to start entering comps? How do I know whether my partner or opponent has an illegal non-conforming wedge in his bag? Even if I looked at it, I wouldn't necessarily have any idea the grooves were square, wider, too many, or whatever infraction they were achieving. It could start to make a mockery of the rules.
In my opinion, rules is rules. I may not agree with all of them, there are some that penalise me through no fault of my own, but they are the rules until they are changed, and that's what we should abide by. If you have no respect for the rules, then don't play the game, it's that simple for me.
Thought this was about new Carlsberg golf gear.......
In all honesty, I don't really care if TM want to R&D non conforming clubs, or sell them. I'm sure they are not the only manufacturer that wants to do this. It might even make it more fun to play the odd game with some of the clubs to see how much better i can play. My concerns come with breaching the rules of golf. Like anything with rules, the rules have usually been drafted up and put in place over time, usually to improve a game or make something safer, or level a playing field in competition to ensure that all competitors use similar equipment, relying on their individual skill to win.
If people start playing with gear that does not conform to the rules, how do you police it when they think they're improved enough to start entering comps? How do I know whether my partner or opponent has an illegal non-conforming wedge in his bag? Even if I looked at it, I wouldn't necessarily have any idea the grooves were square, wider, too many, or whatever infraction they were achieving. It could start to make a mockery of the rules.
In my opinion, rules is rules. I may not agree with all of them, there are some that penalise me through no fault of my own, but they are the rules until they are changed, and that's what we should abide by. If you have no respect for the rules, then don't play the game, it's that simple for me.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Whilst I get your point, I think this kind of attitude is one of the reasons that numbers are declining. I see on this forum a lot of people saying 'if you don't like it then bugger off'.
But unfortunately people are buggering off and participation/number of members of golf clubs is down. Which is not good for the game. Of course the drop in participation is not down to do with the size of the driver heads. But in my book something that may help to increase participation, get more people playing and make the game a bit easier for beginners has to be looked at instead of just telling people not to bugger off unless they confirm to all the rules?
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
Do you think they haven't considered this? How many variations of the game have been muted over the past few years to make it more "attractive" to the masses?Why don't we just carve out a giant hole in the green to make it easier to putt? That should make it a lot more fun!!!.
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
I don't think issuing non conforming clubs will do much to encourage participation. I may be wrong, but I get the impression the casual, "don't care about my score, don't care how I made my score" golfer is much more prevalent in the US where golf as a whole is much more relaxed. I was paired with a local guy in Florida who announced on the tee we were playing "Florida Rules". You can imagine. It was golf Jim, but not as we know it. We still had a great day though.
We can get carried away with the participation thing. Golf popularity like everything will wax and wane. But if we are seeking people to participate in golf, we shouldn't be asking them to play something that isn't golf.
From a business point if view it may make sense in the US but this won't make money over here. If I was TM I wouldn't dream of launching this under the TM brand. Every credible TM user would ditch them overnight.
For me, the most interesting aspect of this is the challenge to the view that amateurs and pro's must all play the same game. That is where I think this will lead to. We all must play with the same clubs, balls etc on the same courses when many would argue there is no comparison between a pro and the average golfer. Eg. Would you like to see the tour pro's reigned in by making them use a shorter ball, so we don't have to keep lengthening all our great courses? Probably. Do you want to be forced to use a shorter ball because Tiger & co can hit it 350 when you can only manage 200 thereby reducing your drives to 170? Probably not.
We can get carried away with the participation thing. Golf popularity like everything will wax and wane. But if we are seeking people to participate in golf, we shouldn't be asking them to play something that isn't golf.
From a business point if view it may make sense in the US but this won't make money over here. If I was TM I wouldn't dream of launching this under the TM brand. Every credible TM user would ditch them overnight.
For me, the most interesting aspect of this is the challenge to the view that amateurs and pro's must all play the same game. That is where I think this will lead to. We all must play with the same clubs, balls etc on the same courses when many would argue there is no comparison between a pro and the average golfer. Eg. Would you like to see the tour pro's reigned in by making them use a shorter ball, so we don't have to keep lengthening all our great courses? Probably. Do you want to be forced to use a shorter ball because Tiger & co can hit it 350 when you can only manage 200 thereby reducing your drives to 170? Probably not.
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Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I agree that the US approach is a lot more 'casual'. I've played a few times and mulligans are common place. Some people may call them cheats as they are not adhering strictly to the rules. But at the end of the day they are enjoying themselves, so to me what's the problem. And to be honest I prefer playing over there as they just seem to enjoy themselves a lot more and seem to treat the game more as an fun pass time.
I'd possibly argue with the bit about credible TM users dropping them overnight if they do this. I think most TM users know what they are like with regards to new clubs, marketing spiel etc etc. And in my opinion if a conforming TM club is helping someone to smash it down the middle of the fairway or fire it at the pins then I seriously doubt they would look to swap them just because they do a non conforming range.
I think the amateurs and pros playing the same game argument is a compelling one. But to me the differences between them are becoming too wide for it to be a bed rock principal that the game must adhere to. And as you say, it's a question over how do you make sure the pros don't just shoot 20 under par every round without making it into a crazy golf course. Whilst at the same time making it a chore that beats you up most of the time for us amateurs.
With regards to the ball I am sure I read somewhere that if they do bring in shorter balls then it would make minimal difference to the vast majority of amateurs in terms of yardage as they just do not have the swing speed or timing. Much like a Pro V1 or Pinnacle Gold will probably go much the same distance for a lot of amateurs if they hit an identical shot with each.
