Probabtionary Period and Sick Pay

[CMAC]

Which are pretty worthless, what ever they may be with limited service, so please enlighten me as I have experienced many situations on both sides of the fence and my knowledge of employment law is quite thorough as it has had to be over the years as an employer in today's "claim culture" & "its not (never) my fault" culture!

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1797

Whilst there are Codes of Practice, they all pretty well fall short with minimum service and no agency will get involved with minor grievousnesses however much the individual feels it isn't minor to them!

Whilst the Code is not, in itself, legally enforceable, employment tribunals will take its provisions into account when considering relevant cases.

Employees have the right not to be unfairly dismissed. In most circumstances employees will need to qualify before they can make a complaint to an employment tribunal:

at least one year's continuous service for employees in employment before 6th April 2012
two years for employees starting employment on or after 6th April 2012.


So, with above in force, its very easy for employers to be rid of people without a threat of legal challenge.

However, there is no length of service requirement in relation to 'automatically unfair grounds'.

 

[Fish]

However, there is no length of service requirement in relation to 'automatically unfair grounds'.

Well spotted but those are nothing like this example, they are for appeals against gross misconduct or for just being a member of a union or other acts of unfair grounds like pregnancy dismissals etc, if you contacted an agency based on any of the above that SILH has stated it would go nowhere. Further more, they'd (the lads employer) could also refuse to supply a reference which would/could greatly harm a young person so young into his working career, so advising to get in touch with agencies and coming across a trouble maker, although he's attempting to protect himself, is totally counter productive.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well spotted but those are nothing like this example, they are for appeals against gross misconduct or for just being a member of a union or other acts of unfair grounds like pregnancy dismissals etc, if you contacted an agency based on any of the above that SILH has stated it would go nowhere. Further more, they'd (the lads employer) could also refuse to supply a reference which would/could greatly harm a young person so young into his working career, so advising to get in touch with agencies and coming across a trouble maker, although he's attempting to protect himself, is totally counter productive.

@Fish -0 which is where I am with him. The idea that his employer might 'get away' with this really poor behaviour really sticks in my throat. But he's not in a very strong position to make anything of it - and as you note a decent reference is worth a lot at this early stage of if working life - and certainly better than any hint of 'troublemaker'. Unfortunate but probably true.

 

[CMAC]

@Fish -0 which is where I am with him. The idea that his employer might 'get away' with this really poor behaviour really sticks in my throat. But he's not in a very strong position to make anything of it - and as you note a decent reference is worth a lot at this early stage of if working life - and certainly better than any hint of 'troublemaker'. Unfortunate but probably true.

however, what you find these days of litigious behaviour is most companies references state when a person worked there and their title, nothing else.

@SILH, do your self a favour and call acas yourself, 5 min chat will let you know a good course of action.


Personally he's doing the right thing by getting out, clean. It's easier to get a job when your in a job so the best statement he can make to them is when he hands in his notice for a better job in a far better company.

p.s advise him not to be too negative about his present company and reason for moving when interviewing, "greater career opportunities", "type of work he wants to do" "always admired what he has heard about new employer" etc etc is fine, always positive with tangible reasons for wanting to move.

After he leaves he could always write a respectful and informative reason for leaving to the current MD if he still feels unfairly treated.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

however, what you find these days of litigious behaviour is most companies references state when a person worked there and their title, nothing else.

@SILH, do your self a favour and call acas yourself, 5 min chat will let you know a good course of action.


Personally he's doing the right thing by getting out, clean. It's easier to get a job when your in a job so the best statement he can make to them is when he hands in his notice for a better job in a far better company.

p.s advise him not to be too negative about his present company and reason for moving when interviewing, "greater career opportunities", "type of work he wants to do" "always admired what he has heard about new employer" etc etc is fine, always positive with tangible reasons for wanting to move.

After he leaves he could always write a respectful and informative reason for leaving to the current MD if he still feels unfairly treated.

Thanks @CMAC - may well call acas as you suggest. And yes - I must teach him the correct way to answer the 'why do you want to join us' question - avoiding the negative reflections on his previous employer.

 

[Val]

Sounds like a nonsense if im honest, not someone who i would like to work for.

Surely if you were a dept manager and someone in their probationary period wasn't working hard enough you would be telling them so and if they don't get up to speed then they'd be getting punted?

Not good at all SILH, hope the lad gets sorted somewhere better.

 

[Fish]

Sounds like a nonsense if im honest, not someone who i would like to work for.

Surely if you were a dept manager and someone in their probationary period wasn't working hard enough you would be telling them so and if they don't get up to speed then they'd be getting punted?

Not good at all SILH, hope the lad gets sorted somewhere better.

We don't really know if this hasn't happened to be fair, I don't think even SILH can guarantee it hasn't, he, like us, only have the word of the lad and he might not want to be seen to be letting his dad down by saying that he's not coming up to scratch in his new and first job and that is the reason for his extension, its always easy to find fault when we only have one side of the story and even that is a third party.

Of course I'm not saying this is the case, but, it can't be fully dismissed without the company giving their side of it, and we'll never hear that!

 

[Val]

We don't really know if this hasn't happened to be fair, I don't think even SILH can guarantee it hasn't, he, like us, only have the word of the lad and he might not want to be seen to be letting his dad down by saying that he's not coming up to scratch in his new and first job and that is the reason for his extension, its always easy to find fault when we only have one side of the story and even that is a third party.

Of course I'm not saying this is the case, but, it can't be fully dismissed without the company giving their side of it, and we'll never hear that!

Fair point

 

[Hobbit]

however, what you find these days of litigious behaviour is most companies references state when a person worked there and their title, nothing else.

@SILH, do your self a favour and call acas yourself, 5 min chat will let you know a good course of action.


Personally he's doing the right thing by getting out, clean. It's easier to get a job when your in a job so the best statement he can make to them is when he hands in his notice for a better job in a far better company.

p.s advise him not to be too negative about his present company and reason for moving when interviewing, "greater career opportunities", "type of work he wants to do" "always admired what he has heard about new employer" etc etc is fine, always positive with tangible reasons for wanting to move.

After he leaves he could always write a respectful and informative reason for leaving to the current MD if he still feels unfairly treated.

A company can refuse to give reference, which seems to be recognised as a bad reference. And totally agree with the don't be negative about the company you want to leave. I was interviewing a few weeks ago, and I got a load of whining from a candidate. The company he wants to leave has a good rep and are successful - he didn't get a second interview.

As for not, currently, having a contract of employment. It could easily be argued that he has an inferred contract by the nature of the job he was taken on to do and that other employees do have one - there's a multitude of other things, e.g. agreed start and finish times/break times. A decent employment law Solicitor/Barrister would easily rip them to bits.

Also, the new employment laws that came in May last year(or was it the year before - I should know, the daughter wrote it) do make it harder to litigate against an employer but if the case is sound, the employee has far more protection.