“Lost Ball”

[TH63]

So picture the scene. I’m playing in a club 4bbb match play comp.

Par five, pond (currently dried up) marked as a penalty area on the left hand side of the fairway down a dip so no way of knowing if you’re in it from the tee.

So, one of my opponents smacks his drive towards the pond. Now he’s a big hitter, so I’m thinking he’s cleared it and gone into the rough/trees behind it.
He does too, as that’s where he looks for his ball, before deciding it must be in the dried up pond.
He looks in there, can’t find it, declares it lost in the penalty and take ps a drop behind it in line with the hole.

So he then plays his 3rd shot, walks after it and finds his original ball beyond the pond in the first cut of rough. He picks that up, and to be fair picks up his second ball, leaving his partner to carry on with the hole (which they halved).

None of us we’re really sure of the ruling, except that in my view, if there was any doubt on the tee that the ball had cleared the penalty area, but might be lost, then he shouldve played a provisional from the tee

My opinion is that having found the first ball, obviously not in the hazard and afte his three minutes were up, he had effec taken an incorrect drop and ahould’ve gone back to the tee, and played his 3rd shot from there, but perhaps with a penalty shot added on for playing a wrong ball?

Any thoughts?

 

[salfordlad]

You are on the right track. On this information, it was not 'Known or Virtually Certain' that the original ball was lost in the PA, so the player had no entitlement to take BOL PA relief. The ruling that must be assigned is the player has proceeded under S&D and played from a wrong place, which is likely to be a serious breach, requiring the player to return to the tee to play his 5th stroke (original stroke + S&D penalty + general penalty for wrong place). And if it was individual stroke play and the player did not return to the tee and complete the hole correctly, it would have been DQ. So it is good that it was 4BBB and only the partner scored for the hole.

 

[Steven Rules]

The ruling that must be assigned is the player has proceeded under S&D and played from a wrong place, which is likely to be a serious breach, requiring the player to return to the tee to play his 5th stroke (original stroke + S&D penalty + general penalty for wrong place).

The key point of clarification required here is that it was match play so the applicable general penalty was loss of hole (only for the player, not for the partner) as soon as the player played from the wrong place. In match play the concept of 'serious breach' does not apply for wrong place. The player has lost the hole so no need to return to the tee to play again 'correctly' under S&D.

This clarification does not impact the conclusion that salfordlad has correctly reached in relation to the final result for the hole.

 

[TH63]

Thank you both for the comments.

As you say, lots of different Potential outcomes here, depending on the format and as you say, we were fortunate that it was better ball and the player did the right thing.

The only irritation I had was the initial search being beyond the hazard, which then became “it must be in the hazard then, do you agree?”

Wishing to avoid an awkward situation I mumbled something about not having a good view, so to then find the ball a good 20 yards beyond the hazard was a bit galling.

 

[rulie]

Rulings such as these, involving known or virtually certain, are difficult for both the players involved and the referees. But they must be based on the facts of the situation and the conclusions must meet the standards expected by he Rules (being correct 19 times out of 20). Many are reluctant to be "uncooperative" by voicing a differing statement, but if we feel it's not just and don't say anything, we become "enablers". Integrity by all is expected and paramount.

 

[Backsticks]

I think that once you go to the far side of the pond or take action that is looking for the ball outside the pond, you have forfeited the right to drop from the hazard. If you are virtually certain its in the hazard, you go and take the drop. Should someone stumble across his ball in the doing of that, then thats his good luck, and he can play it. But once an deliberate action of looking for it is made, if not found, then its back to the tee. You should have stopped him from dropping from the pond.
Edit. I catch now that it was match play. Yes, you claim the hole once he has taken the wrong option.

 

[rulefan]

So, one of my opponents smacks his drive towards the pond. Now he’s a big hitter, so I’m thinking he’s cleared it and gone into the rough/trees behind it.
He does too, as that’s where he looks for his ball, before deciding it must be in the dried up pond.
He looks in there, can’t find it, declares it lost in the penalty and take ps a drop behind it in line with the hole.

As he must originally have thought it may be in the rough he can't claim he was virtually certain it was in the PA. So lost ball. S&D not taken so player out of hole.

 

[salfordlad]

As he must originally have thought it may be in the rough he can't claim he was virtually certain it was in the PA. So lost ball. S&D not taken so player out of hole.

It really is this simple. Hopefully TH63 is forearmed to intervene on any future repetition.