Practice during round

[Deleted member 15344]

Irrelevant to this topic. You are asking "would we enforce a rule or not?" rather than "is the rule correct?"

Does this mean that you think it is technically a 2-shot penalty, but you just wouldn't call it on the player?

“Technically” it’s called giving advice to a player if you really want to go right down to rules but it’s all about how people interogate the rules - I don’t think I have ever seen anyone ever give a penalty for the situation talked about by the OP in the same way no one has been penalised for saying “take your time”

Its trying to justify a penalty and stretching those rules to the limit when it’s just not required and serves no purpose. If someone applied a penalty to someone who just threw a ball down to finish the hole during a Comp in Stableford then I suspect they wouldn’t be looked upon favourably regardless of justification

 

[Swango1980]

There is a difference between 'raising a breach' and actually looking for ways to penalise players unnecessarily in order to pee them off.

The OP didn't do that though, did they? They raised the breach as they believed to be correct, and then maybe the "victim" got pissed off. But, the OP did what they believed to be correct.

 

[rulefan]

Is anyone here in a position to seek a definitive answer from the R&A ?

Yes. I said I would earlier in the thread and the answer is above.

 

[clubchamp98]

He could be purposely blobbing holes to avoid a cut, ie manipulating his handicap.

I think you could play the whole round with a 9i only if that’s what you want to do.
There’s a 14 club limit but no lower limit as far as I know.
Wouldn’t look good putting with it but it’s not against the rules.

 

[clubchamp98]

So, for a two shot penalty might you could take your illegal drop next to the pin and score a 4 (every hole) .Cracked the game at last!

I think we should stick to the question.

You can’t drop a ball on the green you place it.

 

[Orikoru]

The OP didn't do that though, did they? They raised the breach as they believed to be correct, and then maybe the "victim" got pissed off. But, the OP did what they believed to be correct.

I don't think so. Anyone who seriously tried to apply a further two shot penalty for this sounds like some sort of jobsworth with a vendetta against the player. It's just so unnecessary it's ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think you could play the whole round with a 9i only if that’s what you want to do.
There’s a 14 club limit but no lower limit as far as I know.
Wouldn’t look good putting with it but it’s not against the rules.

Of course you could but that is irrelevant to the discussion, we are talking about using one particular club on a hole for no more than practise, ie, he’s out the comp and decides to use the rest of the round to try different things, ie, practice.

 

[robinthehood]

You can’t drop a ball on the green you place it.

😂

 

[Swango1980]

“Technically” it’s called giving advice to a player if you really want to go right down to rules but it’s all about how people interogate the rules - I don’t think I have ever seen anyone ever give a penalty for the situation talked about by the OP in the same way no one has been penalised for saying “take your time”

Its trying to justify a penalty and stretching those rules to the limit when it’s just not required and serves no purpose. If someone applied a penalty to someone who just threw a ball down to finish the hole during a Comp in Stableford then I suspect they wouldn’t be looked upon favourably regardless of justification

Maybe. All I'm doing is trying to take the emotions away from it and find the rule. A lot of the arguments in the "no penalty" camp or largely based on "I wouldn't apply the penalty as I'm not pedantic or want to be perceived an a*hole", but that doesn't mean that you can therefore imply there is no penalty based on the Rules.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Let’s put this illegal drop nonsense to one side. He did not take any sort of drop. He gave up on his tee shot and knocked one down happy in the knowledge that he had blobbed the hole. The ONLY question is whether hi strokes on that hole were practice ones or not. Everyone has an opinion but nobody has the answer.

In the op you believed he’d found his ball, it was he who told you he put another one down, he may of put another one in to play using the correct method.
So it could of been a correct procedure done for no purpose but his own.

 

[robinthehood]

Playing a stableford qualifier last week when guy who’s card I’m marking loses his ball from his tee shot on 10th. Evidently, he can’t be bothered going back so he plays another into the green just for interest and putts out. I had assumed that he had found his ball, I was marking his card and when asked to clarify his score on the hole he explained “ no score just played one down”. On the next hole he scores a 5 and after this I consult my players guide to the rules and advise him it’s a 2 shot penalty and that he has, in fact scored a seven on that hole.

When we got in I was called for all sorts by our roll up. What would you have done?

In light of rulefans new info Will you be rectifying your mistake? and did your penalty make much difference to the players overall score?

 

[Swango1980]

I don't think so. Anyone who seriously tried to apply a further two shot penalty for this sounds like some sort of jobsworth with a vendetta against the player. It's just so unnecessary it's ridiculous.

So, we are accused about making assumptions about a players attempt to practice, yet you are happy to make assumptions about the person raising the penalty in the first place.

 

[rulefan]

Although, that's not the point. 5.5a is based on "Whilst Playing the Hole". The question is, had the hole already been competed once the player decided not to play on (legitimately)? If the answer to that was yes, then 5.5b would apply, and the penalty stated under 5.5c

It is the point in this case. The player dropped a ball in the wrong place with a serious breach. He did not correct it. He is DQd from the hole. ie no score.

The situation may be different if he had gone back to the tee but that is not the situation in the OP.

 

[robinthehood]

Maybe. All I'm doing is trying to take the emotions away from it and find the rule. A lot of the arguments in the "no penalty" camp or largely based on "I wouldn't apply the penalty as I'm not pedantic or want to be perceived an a*hole", but that doesn't mean that you can therefore imply there is no penalty based on the Rules.

Not at all, its based on what is actually happening (failing to take S&D) then putting a ball in play.

 

[clubchamp98]

Of course you could but that is irrelevant to the discussion, we are talking about using one particular club on a hole for no more than practise, ie, he’s out the comp and decides to use the rest of the round to try different things, ie, practice.

No it wasn’t your post said he could be purposely blobbing holes to avoid a cut (see below) this is what I answered.

He could be purposely blobbing holes to avoid a cut, ie manipulating his handicap.

 

[Swango1980]

In the op you believed he’d found his ball, it was he who told you he put another one down, he may of put another one in to play using the correct method.
So it could of been a correct procedure done for no purpose but his own.

Although the marker (OP) thought he had found his ball, when the player said "no score just played one down" that heavily implies not only did they not find their ball, but they gave up on the hole at that point and just played one down. I don't think there was a sense from the original post that the player felt they were still proceeding correctly under the rules. I'm also not saying that they realised they may have been breaking any rules either intentionally, but for many rules ignorance doesn't make you immune from penalty. So, the question is "could this be considered a practice stroke between two holes?" and the answer COULD be considered yes if the hole was officially complete.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Maybe. All I'm doing is trying to take the emotions away from it and find the rule. A lot of the arguments in the "no penalty" camp or largely based on "I wouldn't apply the penalty as I'm not pedantic or want to be perceived an a*hole", but that doesn't mean that you can therefore imply there is no penalty based on the Rules.

It to me seems that there is a rule break in the person’s actions but it’s not the practise rule break - it’s dropping incorrectly which means DQ from that hole

If you look at his actions that’s all you can judge on

Player hits ball

Can’t find it , drops another illegally and plays out the hole - results 0 points for the illegal drop

That’s it

 

[rulefan]

Let’s put this illegal drop nonsense to one side. He did not take any sort of drop. He gave up on his tee shot and knocked one down happy in the knowledge that he had blobbed the hole. The ONLY question is whether hi strokes on that hole were practice ones or not. Everyone has an opinion but nobody has the answer.

The R&A has just provided the answer. They were not practice strokes.

 

[rulefan]

It to me seems that there is a rule break in the person’s actions but it’s not the practise rule break - it’s dropping incorrectly which means DQ from that hole

If you look at his actions that’s all you can judge on

Player hits ball

Can’t find it , drops another illegally and plays out the hole - results 0 points for the illegal drop

That’s it

That's what I reported that the R&A said.

 

[robinthehood]

Although the marker (OP) thought he had found his ball, when the player said "no score just played one down" that heavily implies not only did they not find their ball, but they gave up on the hole at that point and just played one down. I don't think there was a sense from the original post that the player felt they were still proceeding correctly under the rules. I'm also not saying that they realised they may have been breaking any rules either intentionally, but for many rules ignorance doesn't make you immune from penalty. So, the question is "could this be considered a practice stroke between two holes?" and the answer COULD be considered yes if the hole was officially complete.

But cleary you think it does, as you stated you wouldnt apply the penalty to someone who committed the exact same offence because they didnt know the S&D rule rule.