Practice during round

[Swango1980]

This forum is fun. People don't agree with you, and resort to name calling and not one iota to at least see why another person has come up with an alternative position. I guess that's why Brexit is going swimmingly at the moment

 

[Colin L]

@Swango
For your information since you are new to the forum, there are several qualified and experienced referees who contribute to the forum. It's understandable that you don't know who they are, but it's sad that you should be so suspicious. There's Rulefan. Rulie, Duncan Mackie and myself ...... and with my memory I've probably missed someone out and will have to grovel.

 

[clubchamp98]

I must admit I wasn’t sure of the rule so have learnt something.
Never heard of it before tbh.

But I think the clue was in the name Rulefan!!
He clearly stated he would ask the R&A for clarification.
So a simple Thank You would have done imo.

 

[Orikoru]

I wouldn't admit to that, but I think others have, whilst others have genuinely expressed their belief that I am wrong without the need to get personal about it. But, if the R&A now say it is OK, at least I now know that when I've had a mare start to a hole, I can just drop a ball down anywhere on the fairway and hopefully get the swing going before the next hole, or at least get rid of one other horror shot

People have been doing that for decades. What about in betterball when you've gone OOB but still finish the hole with no chance of bettering your partners score? Even in Stableford when you can't score you don't have to pick up, you can finish the hole if you so wish. To try and penalise all of these by labelling them 'practising on the course' is not only pedantic but mean-spirited and against the spirit and joy of the game.

 

[Swango1980]

@Swango
For your information since you are new to the forum, there are several qualified and experienced referees who contribute to the forum. It's understandable that you don't know who they are, but it's sad that you should be so suspicious. There's Rulefan. Rulie, Duncan Mackie and myself ...... and with my memory I've probably missed someone out and will have to grovel.

Thanks for the info, I knew Duncan was fairly experienced as he used to make a good contribution to howdidido forums. Also, hopefully some can at least see where I am coming from, and my more "extreme" comments where aimed at those who simply tried to shut me down without no apparent consideration to my (and others) interpretation. I've said all along, not overly bothered about what the rule is, more bothered about getting it right (and the boundary between playing with a ball in play with blatantly practising between holes). I'll stay quiet on this topic for now, unless any other information is revealed or the R&A update anything for clarification. But, no offence to anyone with integrity who think I am questioning it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I don't dismiss it, I don't know it, nor has rulesfan ever said in this that he is a qualified rules ref? Had he done, at least he is explaining his position on the back of his experience. Did you not say yesterday you spoke to a rules official yesterday? You can't expect me to simply believe you as I have no idea who you are? As I said to rulesfan, that is not me trying to cause you offence, it's just a fact and I don't expect you to simply believe any factual statement I make

Myself - I used to be a Handicap member on a committee for a number of years and know plenty referees who i speak to and have spoken to people at R&A in the past

Currently this forum has a number of qualified tournament referees all active

Rulefan , Rulie , Colin , Duncan and a few others who don’t post regularly on here - between them I have seen them get the right answer on every rule query , I have seen them challenged and each time they have proved to be correct - it comes down to trust and integrity - I trust them through experience

But will say you have been respectful in your posting in regards your belief of the rule and the penalty.

 

[robinthehood]

People have been doing that for decades. What about in betterball when you've gone OOB but still finish the hole with no chance of bettering your partners score? Even in Stableford when you can't score you don't have to pick up, you can finish the hole if you so wish. To try and penalise all of these by labelling them 'practising on the course' is not only pedantic but mean-spirited and against the spirit and joy of the game.

Actually its just wrong

 

[Orikoru]

Actually its just wrong

Operative word was to 'TRY'.

 

[clubchamp98]

Maybe cut the lad a little slack.
We sometimes put things in writing worded incorrectly
Things we would not say in public.
As he now knows who you are.

 

[clubchamp98]

Operative word was to 'TRY'.

He didn’t try he did it in the op.
Some lads I know might not be happy with that lol!!!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Now this thread is an example of trolling on an epic level.

It’s not trolling in any shape of form

It’s no surprise that the thread at times turned a little nasty towards the OP and another poster when posters like yourself get involved - rule threads are normally more respectful towards people’s views and opinions. What Swango and the Op posted has caused healthy debate that required a rules expert to confirm with R&A - that shows maybe it’s not as clear cut as thought

 

[Swango1980]

I must admit I wasn’t sure of the rule so have learnt something.
Never heard of it before tbh.

But I think the clue was in the name Rulefan!!
He clearly stated he would ask the R&A for clarification.
So a simple Thank You would have done imo.

If my name had been "ruleexpert" would you assume everything I said was accurate? I will thank rulefan and others in his camp for having a sensible discussion. At least some like yourself feel you have learnt something for it, rather than the lucky few who have known all along.

 

[duncan mackie]

Late to commenting, and yes, I've read every post over the last few days as the thread has developed....

The crux of the issue remains the apparent miss match between the additional definition for stableford in 5.5b/1 and the obvious clarity of the last bullet in 5.5a.

This has not been addressed in the R&A response quoted.

If the intention is for there to be some additional delineation of specific acts that trigger a shift in status from playing out the hole without the ability to score to being between holes, prior to holing out, then this needs to be clear - equally if their isn't then the last point in 5.5b/1 needs work!

 

[Swango1980]

Late to commenting, and yes, I've read every post over the last few days as the thread has developed....

The crux of the issue remains the apparent miss match between the additional definition for stableford in 5.5b/1 and the obvious clarity of the last bullet in 5.5a.

This has not been addressed in the R&A response quoted.

If the intention is for there to be some additional delineation of specific acts that trigger a shift in status from playing out the hole without the ability to score to being between holes, prior to holing out, then this needs to be clear - equally if their isn't then the last point in 5.5b/1 needs work!

Thanks Duncan, I think this is the first comment that genuinely indicates that, even if I may be wrong, I'm not going mad in my interpretation of both that rule and Interpretation of completing a hole in Stableford.

 

[clubchamp98]

If my name had been "ruleexpert" would you assume everything I said was accurate? I will thank rulefan and others in his camp for having a sensible discussion. At least some like yourself feel you have learnt something for it, rather than the lucky few who have known all along.

I never assume anything .
But if someone goes out of his way to answer your question a simple thank you is sufficient.
That’s where your post should have stopped.

 

[Kellfire]

It’s not trolling in any shape of form

It’s no surprise that the thread at times turned a little nasty towards the OP and another poster when posters like yourself get involved - rule threads are normally more respectful towards people’s views and opinions. What Swango and the Op posted has caused healthy debate that required a rules expert to confirm with R&A - that shows maybe it’s not as clear cut as thought

Don't be so naïve - the first time the rule was quoted to him, Swango knew he was in the wrong but he kept pushing to try to illicit a response. Once he got them he turned on the "don't be mean to me" and "let's be respectful" routine. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Swango1980]

I never assume anything .
But if someone goes out of his way to answer your question a simple thank you is sufficient.
That’s where your post should have stopped.

Many people have answered my question in a fairly crude and nasty way. Should I thank them as well and end the topic, even if I am yet to be convinced by their answer? Rulefan only clarified the comment from the R&A after well over a hundred comments. Had I stopped yesterday when the first person replied we may never have got to this point. Duncan now suggests that the R&A response quoted has not addressed the situation, and that maybe more work is required by the R&A in clearing things up.

The fact that I've continued has driven me mad at times as it feels like I'm banging my head against a wall with some, but interesting nonetheless, and a situation I probably never really gave a lot of thought to.

 

[effayjay]

From the R&A.
In this case the ruling is very straight forward. "As he’s not followed the correct procedure by going back to the tee, then he doesn’t score any points on the hole. Rule 5.5a would apply as the result has already been decided."

I am discussing other scenarios with my contact.

Thank you, that’s helpful.

Out of interest what are the other scenarios you are discussing

 

[Swango1980]

Don't be so naïve - the first time the rule was quoted to him, Swango knew he was in the wrong but he kept pushing to try to illicit a response. Once he got them he turned on the "don't be mean to me" and "let's be respectful" routine. He knew what he was doing.

"he knew he was wrong". Absolute rubbish I'm afraid.

 

[Orikoru]

"he knew he was wrong". Absolute rubbish I'm afraid.

So you still don't know you're wrong? Or you've figured it out since then?