Post Office - Horizon scandal

[Mudball]

Interesting to hear bits and bobs of the hearing today… did I hear that ‘The total bill for compensation to the victims of the Post Office scandal will top the £1bn currently set aside’

Someone help me do the maths … how many post masters are we talking about here? So what does the average look like.

If 1b is set aside, did 1b disappear in the first place? Where did 1b go? Can’t have gone into someone’s bottom line and not make an impact.

 

[GreiginFife]

Interesting to hear bits and bobs of the hearing today… did I hear that ‘The total bill for compensation to the victims of the Post Office scandal will top the £1bn currently set aside’

Someone help me do the maths … how many post masters are we talking about here? So what does the average look like.

If 1b is set aside, did 1b disappear in the first place? Where did 1b go? Can’t have gone into someone’s bottom line and not make an impact.

Bear in mind, £1bn is only £1m each per 1000 affected. So in real terms, and relative to the impact and harm caused. Not that much in the grand scheme, especially as that affected number increases.

The issue was one of unresolved data errors. No actual money went missing (aside from genuinely fraudulent or criminal actions) so no, £1bn didn't disappear. The data, if never corrected would look like it had but it's just data being shifted around.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Interesting to hear bits and bobs of the hearing today… did I hear that ‘The total bill for compensation to the victims of the Post Office scandal will top the £1bn currently set aside’

Someone help me do the maths … how many post masters are we talking about here? So what does the average look like.

If 1b is set aside, did 1b disappear in the first place? Where did 1b go? Can’t have gone into someone’s bottom line and not make an impact.

I'll be staggered if the victims ever get near that figure. The legal costs will suck up millions, various other charges, people dying before receiving money. I'm sure it would be cheaper if they did, as the former chairman said today, just give every victim a flat £1m. Cut out the nonsense.

 

[Mudball]

Bear in mind, £1bn is only £1m each per 1000 affected. So in real terms, and relative to the impact and harm caused. Not that much in the grand scheme, especially as that affected number increases.

The issue was one of unresolved data errors. No actual money went missing (aside from genuinely fraudulent or criminal actions) so no, £1bn didn't disappear. The data, if never corrected would look like it had but it's just data being shifted around.

From the show I understood they were adjusting the figures remotely. But it has to show up somewhere

Postmaster sells £10 worth of stuff. System says it is £30. PM now has to cough up £20.

1) This 20 has to go somewhere. Not all PM can afford 20. Let’s say 50% make 50% of the payment. It is still an additional 10 that needs to go into the accounts of the PO

2) the original £30 has to be posted into the accounts of the PO. This may sit as an asset (revenue from sale) or a liability (theft) depending on how it has been treated by the accounts. Irrespective, it has to show up somewhere in the POs books.

What is that figure?

 

[GreiginFife]

From the show I understood they were adjusting the figures remotely. But it has to show up somewhere

Postmaster sells £10 worth of stuff. System says it is £30. PM now has to cough up £20.

1) This 20 has to go somewhere. Not all PM can afford 20. Let’s say 50% make 50% of the payment. It is still an additional 10 that needs to go into the accounts of the PO

2) the original £30 has to be posted into the accounts of the PO. This may sit as an asset (revenue from sale) or a liability (theft) depending on how it has been treated by the accounts. Irrespective, it has to show up somewhere in the POs books.

What is that figure?

The figures were being adjusted remotely. And that's the data being moved about. But no actual money was lost or made. Just a balance sheet made up of incorrect data. If those errors were corrected the balance would be skewed to what the PMs paid in.. The errors not being corrected show a false narrative. No REAL money has gone missing anywhere.

edit: If anything, with the money that the post masters paid in to balance these false balances, there should be a mass surplus of cash, not a shortfall. Again, if the errors were corrected.

 

[Mudball]

The figures were being adjusted remotely. And that's the data being moved about. But no actual money was lost or made. Just a balance sheet made up of incorrect data. If those errors were corrected the balance would be skewed to what the PMs paid in.. The errors not being corrected show a false narrative. No REAL money has gone missing anywhere.

edit: If anything, with the money that the post masters paid in to balance these false balances, there should be a mass surplus of cash, not a shortfall. Again, if the errors were corrected.

my basic understanding of account would say...
1) System says you owe PO £20... So there will have to be a ledger entry in the PO that says they sold £20 worth of goods. The goods themselves may not exist. But it is a made up number. Since PO has major money outstanding from PMs, it will be showing a nett loss
2) When the PM pays £20 it will go into a holding account or has to be written off against a ledger entry which says that PM owes us £20. Else there is an unaccounted surplus sitting somewhere. wont be surprised if this was used to pay bonus

anyways, i assume there are some incredibly smart people looking into it. At the end of the day, like the banks in the financial crisis, the PO will be bailed by taxpayers money. PMs lives will be destroyed while everyone inside the circle will get away scot free.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I would not be surprised if the 'missing money' was paid as bonuses to the investigation officers.

I understand that some of the 'corrected payments' to the charged PM's did not even amount to the money that was 'lost'.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The figures were being adjusted remotely. And that's the data being moved about. But no actual money was lost or made. Just a balance sheet made up of incorrect data. If those errors were corrected the balance would be skewed to what the PMs paid in.. The errors not being corrected show a false narrative. No REAL money has gone missing anywhere.

edit: If anything, with the money that the post masters paid in to balance these false balances, there should be a mass surplus of cash, not a shortfall. Again, if the errors were corrected.

The "real" money wasn't missing, but the Subbies were still made to pay back the missing that wasn't missing....so effectively the Subbies have paid the PO large amounts of money

 

[GreiginFife]

The "real" money wasn't missing, but the Subbies were still made to pay back the missing that wasn't missing....so effectively the Subbies have paid the PO large amounts of money

Yes, EXACTLY. The post masters paid back against false balances, not deficits in the books. And that created "real" surpluses that weren't detected because the data was wrong.

What @Mudball described twice above is what would happen in normal accounting practice and I accept that, but what this was was far from normal and as long as that data remained incorrect, false accounting was happening - just not in the way the PO was insisting it was.

 

[chellie]

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1762486750650261765?s=20

 

[chellie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773069608905322646

 

[Hobbit]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773069608905322646

The recordings…

 

[Voyager EMH]

This must make the pursuit of wrongful convictions a knowingly illegal act by individuals and not a purely corporate responsibility.

Police must investigate those individuals.
CPS must agree to prosecution of individuals.

I hope this will happen.
The consequence of this not happening will be yet another chapter in the scandal.

 

[Tashyboy]

I said in post 75 this still has a long way to go re what has gone off and been hidden. These latest recordings from 2013 have only scratched the surface.
I have a feeling there will rightly be casualties from this both political and business wise

 

[clubchamp98]

I said in post 75 this still has a long way to go re what has gone off and been hidden. These latest recordings from 2013 have only scratched the surface.
I have a feeling there will rightly be casualties from this both political and business wise

Does beg the question.
“ why have people been sitting on these recordings “?

 

[Billysboots]

I know there have been calls here for the PO as an organisation to be investigated for fraudulent activity, but this runs much, much deeper.

It’s a blatant conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

 

[Genu9]

The recordings…

Unbelievable. Everyone of the 'investigators' needs to be investigated and brought to account along with all those named in the article.

 

[Tashyboy]

Does beg the question.
“ why have people been sitting on these recordings “?

I have said that for over a generation this government has its policies and agendas. If you disagree and have a different view, opinion, idea then you are part of the problem not the solution.
With that in mind I think folk have been Savvy enough to do things they know are wrong but also covered there backs at the same time.
Why has this been kept quiet for som long? I think part of the reasoning is if it was attempted to be made public in 2013 it may well have been swept under the carpet. Now it has been released it at this time, it is explosive.

 

[Neilds]

I have said that for over a generation this government has its policies and agendas. If you disagree and have a different view, opinion, idea then you are part of the problem not the solution.
With that in mind I think folk have been Savvy enough to do things they know are wrong but also covered there backs at the same time.
Why has this been kept quiet for som long? I think part of the reasoning is if it was attempted to be made public in 2013 it may well have been swept under the carpet. Now it has been released it at this time, it is explosive.

Not just this Government - all the 3 main parties have had their hands in this mess

 

[GreiginFife]

I know there have been calls here for the PO as an organisation to be investigated for fraudulent activity, but this runs much, much deeper.

It’s a blatant conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

Said similar in post 6 way back.