Post Office - Horizon scandal

[Jensen]

So the Post Office has finally admitted that there were faults in their banking system.
Lots of sub postmasters have been penalised financially. Many have lost their homes and their savings due to wrongly being accused.
These people should be put back into the position that they were in before being wrongly accused. If that means having their properties bought back for them and reinstating their savings, then this is the minimum that The Post Office must do.

 

[backwoodsman]

So the Post Office has finally admitted that there were faults in their banking system.
Lots of sub postmasters have been penalised financially. Many have lost their homes and their savings due to wrongly being accused.
These people should be put back into the position that they were in before being wrongly accused. If that means having their properties bought back for them and reinstating their savings, then this is the minimum that The Post Office must do.

It's a lot worse than that...

Some were wrongly convicted & sent prison, many have lost everything, many have had their physical & mental health affected, and sadly, some few even took their own lives. An absolute scandal, and outrageous that those responsible have not faced any consequence. And well done everyone (especially Private Eye) who fought the corner for these folk - and who continue to do so untill they are properly compensated.

 

[IanM]

This is one of the most shocking things (workplace related) I have ever heard of. Mass screw-up that has wrecked lives. Much of it irreparable.

 

[srixon 1]

You’d like to think that the hierarchy would have investigated why so many post masters and post mistresses were “on the fiddle”. Surely someone must have realised that there was a spike in the amount of discrepancies that appeared after the new software was rolled out. An absolute disgrace that so many people were wrongly prosecuted and their lives totally ruined.

 

[AmandaJR]

You’d like to think that the hierarchy would have investigated why so many post masters and post mistresses were “on the fiddle”. Surely someone must have realised that there was a spike in the amount of discrepancies that appeared after the new software was rolled out. An absolute disgrace that so many people were wrongly prosecuted and their lives totally ruined.

That's what I keep thinking. How didn't it flag that suddenly there were a whole bunch of them on the fiddle - on the same fiddle at that? Horrendous treatment and mismanagement.

 

[GreiginFife]

Best case scenario it was all being managed regionally and no one was talking meaning they were failing to connect the dots and they missed the pattern. Worst case, they knew and they covered it up (most likely scenario).

If it's the former then compensation into the millions must be paid, at least in an attempt at reparation, to those horrifically affected by this. If it's the latter then these people need to be tried for perverting the course of justice and perjury as clearly these cases went to court and the Post Office did not declare the oddities that everyone else can see. It is they that need to do jail time.

Either way, absolute mismanagement from an organisation that was never really famed for it's treatment of it's employees.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The local news up here have been all over this for a good few years now so I have followed it closely. This system was so obviously faulty that for the management to see what was happening across the country and still continue with devastating prosecutions is an utter disgrace. People have been through an appalling time, loss of liberty for some, businesses, reputation, money. It's a scandal that makes me genuinely angry, the cruelty of it.

Those affected deserve compensation on quite a massive scale.

To this point, I'm not sure anyone has lost their job over this, management, nor has anyone been prosecuted regarding the scandal. It's appalling.

 

[Foxholer]

An absolute disgrace by 'big business'. Here's an FT article that sums it up pretty well, if excluding many of the personal catastrophes it generated! https://www.ft.com/content/315f7a16-1549-4558-8520-27621bd9132a
An inquiry has been going on for some time and there have been many court cases required. From the £58m settlement in case,covering 555 claimants, £12m was available for distribution to claimants!

 

[srixon 1]

My sister-in-law was a post mistress for years including during the introduction of the new computer system. Apparently there was no training given and it was easy to push the wrong button which could cause the discrepancies when it came to balancing the books. I’m not saying that this was the case for every transaction as I am sure the software was deeply flawed from the start. Luckily she was not affected by the scandal.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the problems is that it has to be done on a case by case basis.

Many of these people pleaded guilty in court (probably in the hope og getting a lighter sentence).

 

[backwoodsman]

The worst of it is that "the management" persisted with prosecutions long after they knew the IT system was at fault. And many of that senior management are still holding nice sinecures in public office. The Chief Exec at the time of the scandal even got a CBE later for "services to postal services" - what a kick in the teeth that was for for the victims ...

 

[Jensen]

The worst of it is that "the management" persisted with prosecutions long after they knew the IT system was at fault. And many of that senior management are still holding nice sinecures in public office. The Chief Exec at the time of the scandal even got a CBE later for "services to postal services" - what a kick in the teeth that was for for the victims ...

Was that Adam Crozier?

 

[backwoodsman]

Was that Adam Crozier?

Paula Vennells (Crozier may or may not have got one - I don't know)

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Many of these people pleaded guilty in court (probably in the hope og getting a lighter sentence).

One of the people from Durham who was prosecuted, aged about 19 at the time, 3rd generation post office, was told by RM to plead guilty or face additional charges from them that would be even more serious ?. They bullied him into it, the same with others. When you are an individual, faced with the might and deep pockets of such a large organisation then it is no wonder many accepted a guilty plea even though they knew they had done nothing wrong.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

HID was working at Fujitsu, the IT system at the centre of this at the time. They had a massive 24/7 team dedicated to the Post Office project and they were aware of "glitches" but thought initially they were individual branch level problems and issues with the postal staff not having sufficient training. No-one seemed to recognise these were more than local issues for a long time

 

[backwoodsman]

HID was working at Fujitsu, the IT system at the centre of this at the time. They had a massive 24/7 team dedicated to the Post Office project and they were aware of "glitches" but thought initially they were individual branch level problems and issues with the postal staff not having sufficient training. No-one seemed to recognise these were more than local issues for a long time

Hmm.
Seems Fujitsu were as culpable in this matter as senior management of RM - to the extent they denied (lied in court even) that there were issues with the software.

 

[GaryK]

In my experience and humble opinion, generally speaking the standard of management across many industries has declined over the past 20-30 years.
It seems long gone are the days where someone worked their way up from the "shop floor" and into management positions where they would have a wealth of knowledge of the jobs that their staff were doing.
All too often now, management roles are awarded on who you know, or if your face fits, or your academic qualifications instead of real world experience.
This is clearly obvious in both commercial operations and government offices (obv not wanting to push the discussion to a political debate).
What you tend to find is that the actual workers doing the job have a much better idea and understanding of the key issues (and how to resolve them) than their manager.
"I'm the manager and therefore my decision is final" is all too rife even if the manager is completely wrong.

 

[HeftyHacker]

In my experience and humble opinion, generally speaking the standard of management across many industries has declined over the past 20-30 years.
It seems long gone are the days where someone worked their way up from the "shop floor" and into management positions where they would have a wealth of knowledge of the jobs that their staff were doing.
All too often now, management roles are awarded on who you know, or if your face fits, or your academic qualifications instead of real world experience.
This is clearly obvious in both commercial operations and government offices (obv not wanting to push the discussion to a political debate).
What you tend to find is that the actual workers doing the job have a much better idea and understanding of the key issues (and how to resolve them) than their manager.
"I'm the manager and therefore my decision is final" is all too rife even if the manager is completely wrong.

One of the reasons my dad took an early retirement from his (ironically) post office engineer job. His new manager was 22 and on a grad scheme following a history degree. She had absolutely no suitable qualifications to be managing a team of engineers across the North West and it showed.

Hauled my dad over the coals for not working quickly enough and compared him to another engineer who had apparently done the same job in another site in 30 mins, so asked why had it taken my dad 90 mins. My dad argued that it was physically impossible to complete that task in that time but she sided with the other engineer.

It turned out a couple of months later that this other engineer had been signing off jobs that he hadn't even attended. The tracker on his van revealed that he'd never even left his home.

My dad never got so much as a hint of an apology and left shortly after with a bitter taste in his mouth. He said he was gutted as he said he had loved that company until those final couple of years.

 

[road2ruin]

There are few stories that I can remember that have made me as angry as this one and I have no personal links to the PO. Given what these people were put through they should be awarded massive compensation (although too late for some) and some people at both the PO and the IT company should be facing their own prison sentences which would hopefully ruined them for life.

For the PO to get away with a ‘sorry’ and paying a bit of money (not all are getting much as they settled earlier on in the process to try and put it to bed) is a disgrace.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

There is no doubt that the incompetence of RM and Fujitsu senior managers resulted in a massive cover up.
They caused great harm to many of it's staff and should have been held responsible in a court of law.
This is a serious failure of the government prosecution service.