bobmac
Major Champion
Post Office - Horizon scandal
- Thread starter Jensen
- Start date
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Quite…they know about the new system, and think they know about the new processes, but as far as new behaviours - well what are these?. One shoogly leg on a milking stool and the farmer topples over into the manure.Or they don't really know what Change Management is. I haven't managed to track down anyone who admits to working on the cm deployment of this..... normally someone would know someone!
Many times I've been in to talk to an organisation and they think CM is another term for project management.
Regardless. This case is the "cover up" to end them all.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
They did but apparently it was the coalition government that wanted Fujitsu looking into but then gave them
More contracts which seems a bit odd.
I mentioned ages ago that I thought this would go deeper than a few post masters getting compensation and charges cleared. I still think we have only scratched the surface. Unfortunately
And I think a Few folk will have squeaky bums.
bobmac
Major Champion
Mudball
Assistant Pro
They did but apparently it was the coalition government that wanted Fujitsu looking into but then gave them
More contracts which seems a bit odd.
I mentioned ages ago that I thought this would go deeper than a few post masters getting compensation and charges cleared. I still think we have only scratched the surface. Unfortunately
And I think a Few folk will have squeaky bums.
my cynical/realistic view is that nothing will come out... a few will be sacrificed in the name of of the many.. You almost get a sense that Michelle Mone just ran out of friends and hence thrown under the bus - whilst others who had their snout in the trough will get thru. Same thing with Vennels
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I think Vennells will be the one people want punished.
She was the one on the news telling us “ they look after their staff”
For me it’s the cover up that’s the main issue.
All major projects have problems! Just don’t blame other people and put them in jail.!!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I have no idea what you're talking about. I've not suggested Korean cars or Japanese beef is in any way inferior to British or any other foreign product is of poor quality.
You suggested "We are Pants". I also have no idea why you suggest that, many British firms excell at software and many manufactured Hi Tec products, I worked in the British CadCam software Industry and many UK systems were real world leaders. In saying that there are also many World Class Software developers Worldwide but it is a very diverse industry.
I don't believe our software development skills in the UK have been decimated either, we produce some very clever people in our Universities who work on real cutting edge projects. There is some truth that we have let our manufacturing industry fall behind but don't believe we don't have some fantastic minds in that sector as well.
Many large companies are now internationally owned but that doesn't detract from my comment that large software projects will have bugs that don't all get caught in the testing phase. I repeat that the issue wasn't that Horizon had bugs it was the way the end user was made responsible for them rather than the developers and product owners taking responsibility.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Pedants corner... a milking stool only has three legs so can't have a shoogly leg .
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed precisely, a milking stool has three legs, and so if one of the three is a bit wobbly and then fails - you are on your backside.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
In which case, I have a different definition of shoogly to yours
And now back to the Post Office ...
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
Just been thinking about this. Proof of criminality has to be "beyond reasonable doubt". So, if charged with theft, prove that it's theft, where are the proceeds? Prove it's not a clerical error. Hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt when there's absolutely no evidence of where the money has gone.
False accounting. Prove it isn't a clerical error or system problem. Hard to show no reasonable doubt. In a case where a judge directed that a computer expert get involved the Post Office immediately dropped the case, compensated the postmaster & had them sign a non disclosure agreement. (see post #57)
What were the defence solicitors doing? Was it a case that the defendants couldn't afford the quality of lawyer to defend them properly or did too many get persuaded to plead guilty to false accounting in exchange for theft charges being dropped?
False accounting. Prove it isn't a clerical error or system problem. Hard to show no reasonable doubt. In a case where a judge directed that a computer expert get involved the Post Office immediately dropped the case, compensated the postmaster & had them sign a non disclosure agreement. (see post #57)
What were the defence solicitors doing? Was it a case that the defendants couldn't afford the quality of lawyer to defend them properly or did too many get persuaded to plead guilty to false accounting in exchange for theft charges being dropped?
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Glasgow Commonwealth Games was also very impressive..
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
It is not that bad really.
We are still right up there with the leaders in terms of
Alcohol consumption
Complaining
Gap between wealthiest and poorest
Blaming others
Housing cost as a proportion of income
Public transport prices
We were way behind USA with obesity, but have caught up very swiftly.
You can not have been to Florida. Seriously, we are still amateurs compared to the Americans on that front. We are having a good go at matching them but we are still second division. (really not any sort of boastWe were way behind USA with obesity, but have caught up very swiftly.
)
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
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- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
Well, the years educating folk to self loathe has been highly successful. 
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Yes and self exclusion.Well, the years educating folk to self loathe has been highly successful.
chellie
Tour Winner
The investigator in charge of investigations and prosecution disclosure admits that he used his wife's qualifications to apply for the job!!!!!
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.
Dodgy software is one thing.
But, to prosecute people to the extent of them going to jail & taking their own lives in the full knowledge that they we're innocent is a whole new level of evil, corruption & covering up.
No amount of punishment dished out to those involved in this disgusting episode will never be sufficient & I suspect the higher up's in this absolute scandal will not ever see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell.
I’ve tried to watch some of the inquiry, think they’re up to date 110. The solicitors doing the questioning are ripping holes in just about everyone. Some of the things that are coming out are mind boggling!
Saw a Tweet from one of the subbies. She’d paid £38,000 to clear a shortfall in 2007. Had the conviction overturned over 10 years ago. She’s been offered £10,000 compensation but still hasn’t had the £38,500 returned. Why?!
Saw a Tweet from one of the subbies. She’d paid £38,000 to clear a shortfall in 2007. Had the conviction overturned over 10 years ago. She’s been offered £10,000 compensation but still hasn’t had the £38,500 returned. Why?!
I actually think they will, primarily because it is so much in the public interest.
The big danger, given all the press and media coverage, the documentaries and the ITV drama, is going to be ensuring they receive a fair trial.
I know that sounds hugely ironic given what the victims of this scandal have suffered, but defence barristers will argue this point long and hard and it could prove problematic.
