Point of etiquette?

[KenL]

Yes, faster groups have priority. However, if you were waiting and clearly keeping up with the group ahead you need not let them through. They would not be a faster group in this situation.

i think part of the problem is that your club/starter did not even up the group numbers in a competition. A proper draw would have had every group going out as a three.

 

[Val]

How do you know there's not a big gap further up the field?

There might be but there might not be. What does it matter? How far up the field does it need to be?

On my course you can generally see at certain points up to 4 holes in advance. 4 holes could potentially be 10-12 groups, if there is no gap there then it's sorry pal you'll need to wait.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

I'd ask though, a 4 ball in a comp? Is that common for many of you?

Our comps are all played as 4 balls and the late morning/early afternoon tee times when I play are usually booked solid. If there is a 3 ball out it is probably because the other player didn't turn up. That 3 ball will not expect to be let through and will only be let through if the group in front is looking for a ball etc. That's just the way it is at our club and I have never heard of it causing a problem. A 2 ball however will fly through, it's just like Moses parting the Red Sea, the course just seems to open up.

 

[fundy]

Yes, faster groups have priority. However, if you were waiting and clearly keeping up with the group ahead you need not let them through. They would not be a faster group in this situation.

i think part of the problem is that your club/starter did not even up the group numbers in a competition. A proper draw would have had every group going out as a three.

And if the total number of players isnt divisible by 3?

At ours everyone knows you arent being let through in comps unless a decent gap opens up, play can be way too slow a lot of the time but with 8 minute gaps on a busy course this sadly isnt going to change any time soon.

Really do struggle to see the point of a 4 ball calling a 3 ball through if there are a handful more 4 balls in front all in the same comp, 3 ball is gonna have to adjust to the pace the course is playing at

 

[richart]

I can find nothing that cover size of groups in the R&A guide.

I think they refer to letting faster groups through. In the majority of cases this would cover less players in a group. It is possible for a two or three ball to be slower than a four ball but unlikely. Usually they are forced to play at the speed of the group ahead.

If I am in a three or four ball and there is a two ball behind, I would always invite them through. Letting a three ball through when playing in a four ball is trickier, but if they are up our backsides, I would definitely let them through. If the groups in front don't let them through, that is their problem, but at least you have done your bit.

 

[Tommo21]

Every single comp, regardless of format, are in 4 Balls apart from Club Champs at our place.

Never known a four ball in medal stroke play up here in Scotland. Anyway, to the point. If I was a three behind a four and the four was keeping up with pace of play I wouldn't expect to get through. If that was the case the starter would be just as well saying let the three go first.

 

[3565]

This business of keeping up with the group in front to avoid slow play is by the sounds of it obsolete according to some views. Now it's if the group behind is faster then let them through irrespective of what's happening further up the field. So a 4ball goes out to play and took 5 hrs to get round that would be classed as slow play in anyone's book, but they had to stand to the side and let faster less numbered groups behind through even tho they are keeping up with play in front but it so happens that there were only 3 and 2 balls behind them???

Getting ridiculous. No wonder people are packing the game in when a 3 ball, 2 groups behind are watching and more interested in what's going on with a 4ball ahead of them, instead of playing and then pointing it out afterwards, 2 words come to mind for me and the 2nd one is off.

 

[Tommo21]

This business of keeping up with the group in front to avoid slow play is by the sounds of it obsolete according to some views. Now it's if the group behind is faster then let them through irrespective of what's happening further up the field. So a 4ball goes out to play and took 5 hrs to get round that would be classed as slow play in anyone's book, but they had to stand to the side and let faster less numbered groups behind through even tho they are keeping up with play in front but it so happens that there were only 3 and 2 balls behind them???

Getting ridiculous. No wonder people are packing the game in when a 3 ball, 2 groups behind are watching and more interested in what's going on with a 4ball ahead of them, instead of playing and then pointing it out afterwards, 2 words come to mind for me and the 2nd one is off.

All fine and well. Reality of 45 years playing golf is never really expecting to get through a four ball if pace of play is reasonable. I've been in a four ball being waved through a three ball quite a few times because they have lost a ball or fell behind the group in front. The main issue for me is people not keeping up with pace of play, not being ready, waiting on their partners to play before they make up their own mind. I'll go further, watching golf on the telly, it's getting slower and slower and more and more club players are faffing around because they think it's okay. Getting off the subject I know. Happy new year.

 

[Smiffy]

me to, if i am in a group that is waiting for the guys in front who are waiting for the guys in front of them then they can wait.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Foxholer]

Me to, if I am in a group that is waiting for the guys in front who are waiting for the guys in front of them then they can wait.

This comes across as part of the reason that etiquette is ignored!

The bit in the Rule Book makes has nothing about packed courses or the likelihood of the faster group getting through other groups - it simply states that if a group behind is obviously faster, then it should be called through!

Personally, I'd find an opportunity to speak to them, explain the situation and ask whether they wished to go through. It's likely that they would decline (I normally would) as there is always some tension involved from the rush of going through. I wouldn't, however, EXPECT to be called through if the situation was the other way around! I'm there to enjoy my round of golf, not rush round the course as quickly as possible and a few minutes delay isn't a big deal.

In comps I've organised, then it was always 3-balls first with either 1 or 2 4-balls at the end for the 'remainder'.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

This comes across as part of the reason that etiquette is ignored!

The bit in the Rule Book makes has nothing about packed courses or the likelihood of the faster group getting through other groups - it simply states that if a group behind is obviously faster, then it should be called through!

Personally, I'd find an opportunity to speak to them, explain the situation and ask whether they wished to go through. It's likely that they would decline (I normally would) as there is always some tension involved from the rush of going through. I wouldn't, however, EXPECT to be called through if the situation was the other way around! I'm there to enjoy my round of golf, not rush round the course as quickly as possible and a few minutes delay isn't a big deal.

In comps I've organised, then it was always 3-balls first with either 1 or 2 4-balls at the end for the 'remainder'.

But if your group is being held up then how do you know the group behind you is faster? 3 isn't necessarily faster than 4. It is the group at the front of the hold up that should be playing groups through, not a group in the middle who is being held up themselves, that doesn't achieve anything.

 

[drdel]

The R&A guidelines for pace of play includes this

•Do not worry about the group behind – keep up with the group in front

Exactly. No need for any game of golf to be more complicated than that.

 

[Ethan]

I have also had the situation where a group came charging up behind, we let them through into a gap, then they relaxed and slowed us down far more than we were slowing them down in the first place.

 

[Thustwest]

I think there needs to be some official guidelines from the R&A on what is an acceptable pace of play. If a 4 ball gets round in 3 1/2 or 4 hours and has not lost ground to the groups in front then maybe it could be poor etiquette for the following 3 ball to try and "rush" through?

When in a queue how do you know the 3 ball is faster? Maybe you let them through and then they lose a ball and hold your group up?

Playing 18 holes of golf should be a relaxing and thoughtful experience. I play golf to get away from the fast pace and stresses of life.

Saying that, if i can see a gap in the next few groups i will call through a faster group to see if they can take advantage.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Reading back through all the posts it strikes me as yet another area were there seems no right or wrong answer and I can see both sides, the OP opened the thread with the words "reasonably spaced" this immediately means different things to different people, also were did this occur on the course? was it for 18 holes or 8?
One thing stood out was the point some made about the groups ahead and how many there are, I've been of a similar mind set of, it's busy ahead so I'm not letting them through, but after reading the posts if the scenario faces me, I intend to go down the route of sensibly letting them through after talking to them if they wish,
I can only influence my 4 Ball and I'm not there to Marshall the course, if groups 3/4/5 ahead are influencing my actions then to me it's just plain daft.
I'll concentrate on my game, ensure I am up with play and ready to play,

 

[Franco]

As the OP, having slept on it and considered the range of opinions, I feel that in a competition, if everyone is keeping up with the pace of play, with the occasional pause for the group in front to proceed, then it is not reasonable for any group, irrespective of size, to expect to wait less than the other groups. That aside, if I am a three or four ball, I would always let through a two ball.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As the OP, having slept on it and considered the range of opinions, I feel that in a competition, if everyone is keeping up with the pace of play, with the occasional pause for the group in front to proceed, then it is not reasonable for any group, irrespective of size, to expect to wait less than the other groups. That aside, if I am a three or four ball, I would always let through a two ball.

And this is why I genuinely enjoy threads like this, you put a bit in bold then contradict yourself at the end with a sentiment about a 2 Ball, If somebody fails to show and a 4 or 3 Ball becomes a 2 Ball, in a competition they should accept the pace of play, your group may let them through but the next one might not, and that's were it all gets confusing or people get wound up, sometimes you can't do right for doing wrong😃

 

[Fish]

As the OP, having slept on it and considered the range of opinions, I feel that in a competition, if everyone is keeping up with the pace of play, with the occasional pause for the group in front to proceed, then it is not reasonable for any group, irrespective of size, to expect to wait less than the other groups. That aside, if I am a three or four ball, I would always let through a two ball.

So if you're in a 3-ball you'd let a 2-ball through but if you're a 4-ball you wouldn't let a 3-ball through, what's the difference :mmm:

 

[patricks148]

i was under the impression you should always let faster groups though, so a 3 ball would (should) be quicker than a 4. it always get me when people say there is no point letting you though as "such and such" its not up to you to say what s happening in front, faster groups should always be let though

 

[bluewolf]

i was under the impression you should always let faster groups though, so a 3 ball would (should) be quicker than a 4. it always get me when people say there is no point letting you though as "such and such" its not up to you to say what s happening in front, faster groups should always be let though

How do you know the 3 ball is faster? Just because they're behind you and keeping up with you doesn't mean that they're faster.. If I was in the OP's situation I wouldn't have let them through. If I was in the 3 ball I wouldn't have expected to be let through.. Too many people tying themselves in knots trying to save 10 minutes on the course...

Maybe it's last nights celebrations, but I'm picturing a Monty Python style situation where the 4 ball and the 3 ball are constantly letting each other through because one group is temporarily quicker than the other..