Point of etiquette?

[Franco]

Playing in a club competition today and the groups were reasonably spaced, with only occasional waiting for the group ahead to move on. Our four ball was followed by two three balls and in the changing room afterwards, one of the players in the second three ball politely told me that I should have waved through the three ball between us, no doubt followed by his three ball.

This isn't about looking for balls, just normal play without gaps. Our conversation remained pleasant, but I can't help feeling that if our group had stopped to let through the two three balls, those groups behind them would have really noticed a delay. What is the view on this? It probably doesn't have any bearing, but the chap who complained was in a group of cat 1 and 2 players and our group are all cat 4!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If you kept pace with the group in front and the course was full up ahead then you did the right thing. You are correct, calling through when not looking for a ball has a knock on effect for the group behind, it causes unnecessary delay.

 

[Hobbit]

Playing in a club competition today and the groups were reasonably spaced, with only occasional waiting for the group ahead to move on. Our four ball was followed by two three balls and in the changing room afterwards, one of the players in the second three ball politely told me that I should have waved through the three ball between us, no doubt followed by his three ball.

This isn't about looking for balls, just normal play without gaps. Our conversation remained pleasant, but I can't help feeling that if our group had stopped to let through the two three balls, those groups behind them would have really noticed a delay. What is the view on this? It probably doesn't have any bearing, but the chap who complained was in a group of cat 1 and 2 players and our group are all cat 4!

He was in the right. You should have picked an appropriate time/place to let them through. If you tee off and walk to your balls the group behind will usually be off the previous green before you get to your balls. Wave them up then. Many feel this slows play down, hardly at as the groups behind are past you quicker as they are only a 3 ball and you are already at your ball when they get out of range.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Sorry Brian but have to disagree (on the assumption that Franco's group didn't lose pace with the group ahead of them) If the course is busy with 4 balls, 2's and 3's can't expect everyone to stand aside and let them through.

 

[louise_a]

If you were not losing ground on the group in front then I would say you were correct in not letting them through.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

He was in the right. You should have picked an appropriate time/place to let them through. If you tee off and walk to your balls the group behind will usually be off the previous green before you get to your balls. Wave them up then. Many feel this slows play down, hardly at as the groups behind are past you quicker as they are only a 3 ball and you are already at your ball when they get out of range.

Not sure I agree with that Hobbit? The OP says that their group were occasionally waiting on the group in front so there was nothing at all to be gained for the 3-ball. In social play there's a case to be made I suppose, the etiquette section of the rulebook does talk about calling faster groups through. In a club comp with a full course though, I would never expect to be called through unless the people in front were the cause of the delay (either looking for balls, or just generally being slow).

 

[Fish]

If you kept pace with the group in front and the course was full up ahead then you did the right thing. You are correct, calling through when not looking for a ball has a knock on effect for the group behind, it causes unnecessary delay.

I disagree, if the 3-ball behind was waiting on you even though you were up with play I think at the earliest opportunity you still let them through, the real issue here IMO is most groups don't let other groups through correctly, they wave them up but wait for them to walk up to their 2nd shots and then get past, this simply backs up the course, you should wave them up but as soon as they've driven you then still play your 2nd shots, this way there is no delay, you do this until they reach the green and then they putt out first and then move to the next tee, you then putt or approach the green and by the time you've finished they should be clear for you to tee off. Just because your up with play I don't think it is a given to not let a lesser numbered group through!

 

[Norrin Radd]

what is the point of letting a three ball through when there is about four 4 balls in front of you and you are waiting to hit shots.
its a bit different if there was a gap in front of you obviously you let them go. but not if you are waiting as well.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If it's happening after 2-3 holes then I would be inclined to agree with Hobbit and Fish, if it's after 13-14 then no I wouldn't,
The OP's group maybe keeping up with the group in front, but he doesn't say if it was the group in front slowing it down, ie, did the 3 balls think the issue was down to the 2 Four balls, because in all honesty in my experience if people can see it is busy and everyone is keeping up the pace, the point woukdn't be raised.

 

[Franco]

If it's happening after 2-3 holes then I would be inclined to agree with Hobbit and Fish, if it's after 13-14 then no I wouldn't,
The OP's group maybe keeping up with the group in front, but he doesn't say if it was the group in front slowing it down, ie, did the 3 balls think the issue was down to the 2 Four balls, because in all honesty in my experience if people can see it is busy and everyone is keeping up the pace, the point woukdn't be raised.

I could see that the three groups in front of me didn't have any gaps, which is why I was surprised to be spoken to after the game and why I have raised it here. I ask myself, "if I was in a three ball behind his four ball, would he wave me through?" I cannot help feeling that he would find a reason not to.

 

[richart]

I could see that the three groups in front of me didn't have any gaps, which is why I was surprised to be spoken to after the game and why I have raised it here. I ask myself, "if I was in a three ball behind his four ball, would he wave me through?" I cannot help feeling that he would find a reason not to.

Does a three ball have priority over a four ball ? I believe they do. If so, then you should let them through. Doesn't matter if there are more four balls ahead, that is the three balls problem. If it was a two ball behind would you let them through ?

I agree that if you have only a few holes to play, it is probably not worth bothering with.

I remember playing a foursomes match, and we got through well over ten groups during the round. Just because you are keeping up with the group ahead, doesn't mean you shouldn't let anyone through.

 

[Hobbit]

Sorry Brian but have to disagree (on the assumption that Franco's group didn't lose pace with the group ahead of them) If the course is busy with 4 balls, 2's and 3's can't expect everyone to stand aside and let them through.

Not everyone has to step aside. By the time that the 3 ball is through the first group, the group in front will have moved off and it's a couple more holes before the next group will need to consider letting the 3 ball through. But basically you're saying that the field should go at the 4 ball pace irrespective of the size of the groups behind.

in effect, when the first 4 ball lets the 3 ball through they lose approx 7-ish mins at most. That 7 mins, along with the 7 mins the next 4 ball loses, and so on, isn't cumulative. The 4 balls basically all move back one slot.

the 3 ball plays at a far better pace, and the 4 balls lose, say, 10 mins at the most.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

what is the point of letting a three ball through when there is about four 4 balls in front of you and you are waiting to hit shots.
its a bit different if there was a gap in front of you obviously you let them go. but not if you are waiting as well.

This. If there are other four balls further ahead what's the point. I can't see every single group letting them through just because they are a three and therefore potentially moving faster. It simply isn't going to happen and while the OP's group could have called them through if they lost position (looking for a ball etc) I don't see any need to do so otherwise.

 

[Maninblack4612]

It's a case of "do unto others" If I was in the 3 ball on a full course with no gaps I would never expect to be called through & I don't think the Committee would expect anyone to do so. There shouldn't be a massive difference in the pace of play between a fourball playing "ready golf" & a three ball anyway and if we are in the position of the three ball we just take our time & accept that it's going to be bit slow.

 

[Hobbit]

This. If there are other four balls further ahead what's the point. I can't see every single group letting them through just because they are a three and therefore potentially moving faster. It simply isn't going to happen and while the OP's group could have called them through if they lost position (looking for a ball etc) I don't see any need to do so otherwise.

and this is exactly why the current mindset needs addressing. How do you know that the next 4 ball in front of you won't lose a ball and be in a position to let the 3 ball through.

I'd love to know when/how this attitude of not letting the group behind through became the norm and why.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Not everyone has to step aside. By the time that the 3 ball is through the first group, the group in front will have moved off and it's a couple more holes before the next group will need to consider letting the 3 ball through. But basically you're saying that the field should go at the 4 ball pace irrespective of the size of the groups behind.

in effect, when the first 4 ball lets the 3 ball through they lose approx 7-ish mins at most. That 7 mins, along with the 7 mins the next 4 ball loses, and so on, isn't cumulative. The 4 balls basically all move back one slot.

the 3 ball plays at a far better pace, and the 4 balls lose, say, 10 mins at the most.

So how many groups should the 4balls let through? 1? 2? 10?

 

[Hobbit]

So how many groups should the 4balls let through? 1? 2? 10?

Why should the 4 balls dictate the pace of play? But to answer your question, by applying a bit of give and take, there's nothing wrong with a compromise of letting a few through over the period of a round.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with calling groups through. In fact, I hate having players waiting behind me but there is a time and place and correct circumstances to do it. On a busy competition day, yes I'm afraid the pace of play is decided by the 4balls (or hopefully 3balls if it's medal play as that is the usual format at most clubs)

 

[Val]

I'm of the opinion that if I'm up with play and causing no delays and its in competition then no one gets through even if I'm a 3 and they are a 2. Bounce games or roll ups then I'd consider it.

Why should you let a group through when the play isn't slow? Letting a group through causes a delay all be it small bits delay none the less which magnifies itself back through the course.

I'd ask though, a 4 ball in a comp? Is that common for many of you?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I'd ask though, a 4 ball in a comp? Is that common for many of you?

I thought the same, I'm guessing at this time of year it would be some sort of 4BBB comp. Hence my comment above about 3 ball medals.