KenL
Tour Rookie
Is it not a difficult course for everyone?
Playing to or below your handicap
- Thread starter bobmac
- Start date
Which, as Ethan's good observation with 78 percentile, or 3 or 4 rounds from the counting 8, sounds correct. The best score 4 shots better than the average also sounds correct.
More than the course clubchamp98, which is what it is, and the same for everyone, assuming the hc sec isnt making a mess of things, then the CR or Slope are probably incorrect. You can appeal to have it rerated.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
If stableford - 40%
If strokeplay - 25%
If with bratty and Dando, never!
If strokeplay - 25%
If with bratty and Dando, never!
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I disagree.
Low man hits most fairways so not much trouble really.
High capper misses most fairways but very little rough makes the course much easier with his 5 extra shots.
But if the rough was higher the low man isn’t really affected if he hits the fairway.
But the higher capper is impacted much more as he is faced with much tougher shots and can’t hit 3 wood out like most of the year at mine.
So I do think the set up of the course is a big factor.
Assuming you are correct, the slope should be lower then. Ask to have it assessed.
bobmac
Major Champion
I was told growing up that you should only expect to play to your handicap 2-3 times a year. About 5% if you played once a week.
As I haven't played any h/cap golf since 2004 so no experience of the new system, I was curious to see if expectations had changed with the WHS. It seems they have with over 83% of voters of the poll expecting to play to their h/cap 4 times or more a year.
I really feel sorry for the low boys and girls who have worked hard and improved their skills and got to the point where they have no chance of winning.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I showed earlier in the thread that it is very likely that you will play to or below your handicap 20% of the time.
There will be variation to this for those with steadily rising or falling handicap over a long period (around 100 scores)
Maybe one exceptional score could produce a variation to the expected 20%.
I would like to see factual examples from forumers where there is a significant difference from the 20%.
There will be variation to this for those with steadily rising or falling handicap over a long period (around 100 scores)
Maybe one exceptional score could produce a variation to the expected 20%.
I would like to see factual examples from forumers where there is a significant difference from the 20%.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Based on the simple maths, the scores that are better or worse than handicap matter more as they are levers for change. Hypothetically, someone could achieve their 8 of 20 scores, or indeed all 20, with scores spot on the null score for handicap change. Everybody will have a range that defines their handicap. Mine is 76 to 83, for a HI of 7.5, CH of 9 at a CR of 72, slope of 142. If I was super-consistent, I could have a string of 81s which would give the same handicap.
I think we all know some pretty constant players who churn out similar scores regularly, and others who are all over the map.
Jimaroid
Journeyman Pro
The poll doesn’t account for how many times you expect to play per year so I’m not sure what these numbers can mean. I’ve voted for once.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
If you look at my last 100 scores in post #18 you will see exactly 20 scores on or below handicap. (20%)
I would like to see factual examples of where this is significantly different, not merely anecdotal or speculative examples, which has been the case in the majority of posts.
I am happy to be proved wrong in my assertion that "20% of the time" is very likely to be the true experience of a very significant majority.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
At the moment I am getting a HI reduction 1 round in 3 as I transition from my previous ‘too high’ HI to a new more stable HI reflecting recent improvements to my game.
Under the old system I estimate I played under my handicap maybe 2 rounds in 10; to or within buffer maybe 5 in 10; and over buffer maybe 3 in 10.
Under the old system I estimate I played under my handicap maybe 2 rounds in 10; to or within buffer maybe 5 in 10; and over buffer maybe 3 in 10.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Any idea why this might be the case (I realise this might've been done to death on here)
Have comp formats, fields, divisions, course set up, covid participation uptake, contributed to some clubs allowing a scenario to exist where a low player has difficulty in winning
(I guess each club will adapt their comps to cope if the above 'no chance' situation exists)
None of the above factors are insurmountable for a club/ comp committee to deal with or was the expectation at club level that post WHS that WHS itself will sort everything/create no issues within comp environment
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Whilst it is true that many if not most handicap comps open to all handicaps tend to be won by players with higher handicaps, my club has plenty of scratch opportunities for the lowest handicappers, opportunities that higher handicappers have little or no chance of winning. And depending upon conditions that changes.
So on Saturday in quite windy conditions with rough tough and greens fast. 120 entered and only 13 played to handicap or better. Of these 13 players, 8 had handicaps of 14 or less and 4 were SF players. As winner was only 3 under handicap there was plenty of scope for a low SF player to win.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Agree; if a club has existing/new comps where much like the low guys having "no chance" The high cappers have "no chance", that's fine.
But then in clubs like that I can't see how Bob has any need to feel sorry for the low guys he's talking about? Where there's comps suited to all its really just 6 and 2x3 in that kind of club
I assume he means there's clubs where low guys have no chance and still have very limited other comp/divisional opportunities that are being run
(that'd be like a club running scratch comps all year and very little h/cap comps. It doesn't make sense either way round)
bobmac
Major Champion
I'm sure there are some clubs that have divisions and a best gross prize. At these clubs, low h/caps do have a chance of having their efforts rewarded so I don't feel sorry for them, it's the other clubs where my sympathy lies.
I have been a member of many clubs over the years and I've seen both types. One club had no best gross prize but did have divisions but the ''Medal Winner'' was always the best nett score. Another club had a best gross prize but you had to pay extra to enter on top of the normal net comp money so £3 for the comp plus £3 for best gross.
Others have neither, especially if the club didn't have many low h/cap players.
Things may have changed and improved since I last played a medal and the WHS but I don't know, hence this thread
I have been a member of many clubs over the years and I've seen both types. One club had no best gross prize but did have divisions but the ''Medal Winner'' was always the best nett score. Another club had a best gross prize but you had to pay extra to enter on top of the normal net comp money so £3 for the comp plus £3 for best gross.
Others have neither, especially if the club didn't have many low h/cap players.
Things may have changed and improved since I last played a medal and the WHS but I don't know, hence this thread
Swango1980
Well-known member
Depends on how often I play. But, given I will almost certainly have more than 100 rounds a year, I had to select the higher end of the options you gave.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Yeah kinda crazy if its still going on
I guess that means not only does the club mngt & comp committee not see the issue and do something, but also the affected players themselves (low and high) either don’t raise it at AGM or do raise it and solutions are voted down. Either way that’s nutty
Only other scenario is if the affected group (however vocal) are such a tiny minority as to make extra comps/format/divisions etc unviable
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Just realised I haven’t replied to the question
I expect to play to h/cap every time (with the exceptions of really crappy weather, certain courses, carrying an injury etc)
Typically I only did it 4 or 5 times a year at the most. This year is a bit different as my game has taken a bit of a leap forward in performance so I’m looking for improvement throughout the year
I expect to play to h/cap every time (with the exceptions of really crappy weather, certain courses, carrying an injury etc)
Typically I only did it 4 or 5 times a year at the most. This year is a bit different as my game has taken a bit of a leap forward in performance so I’m looking for improvement throughout the year
wjemather
Well-known member
The reality is that under previous systems, low handicappers were (deliberately and by design) favoured, so their probability of winning was significantly higher than the rest of the field (high handicappers had to post exceptional scores in order to compete with merely good scores from low handicappers). Now, with WHS, their probability of winning is not significantly different from everyone else (good scores are comparable).
Probably the most noticeable (perceived) problem is that exceptional scores from higher handicappers are now unattainable for low handicappers (whereas only extremely exceptional scores were unattainable previously). Divisions reduce this possibility while also increasing the probability of winning by simply reducing the number of competitors, so the perception of this new equity being a problem is also reduced.
Also, due to their ability (and consistency), low handicappers have a far greater probability of other winning prizes; e.g. gross, 2s, spot prizes, etc., so any sympathy is really not warranted.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Our max shots used to be 28 to enter a comp now it’s 32 full handicap.
This new system has created players that know how to get the ball around a golf course but with more shots than they used to have.
It’s a poor state off affairs imo that the low players can only win if the weather is bad and this stops the bandits from taking the course apart with their 45+ points.
Lowest gross/ 2s ,divisions etc are a smoke screen imho ,we all enter the main comp and that’s the one you are trying to win
Winning scores of 14 under par are a joke and have only served to alienate players from comps.
The number playing in comps at mine has definitely dropped and I hear “ just giving my £3.50 away “ so they play social golf behind the comp and just put their cards in for h/ cap.
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