Crow
Crow Person
That's what I'm saying, 5 wood off the tee doesn't get you close enough for a comfortable shot into the green, even for Lee.
play off "too cruel?
- Thread starter pokerjoke
- Start date
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I was agreeing Crow -sorry if that wasn't clear. Been a long day...
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
All the 18th haters are saying that it used to be better when most would go for the green. That gave them a chance of an eagle putt, an almost certain putt for birdie, and at worst a par.
Where's the risk in that?
Now at least they have a decision to make.
As Imurg & Fragger have said, half the field were going for it, we just don't see them all on tv.
Where's the risk in that?
Now at least they have a decision to make.
As Imurg & Fragger have said, half the field were going for it, we just don't see them all on tv.
Absolutely, but he didn't get severely punished for it, did he?
I'm happy Luke won. I wanted Luke to win. I think Lee has problems with his bottle when it comes to the final few holes.
I just don't think hitting the green and having the whole tournament taken away for it is fair or exciting.
The hole definitely needed toughening up, but I think they have gone too far with it, and made the risk/reward ratio uneven.
I've said before that I think a two or three shot penalty just for hitting any green, and running through is too much.
It's too much at Augusta, but Augusta gets away with it because it is what it is.
A strip of rough alongside the green isn't going to make the shot any easier, it's just going to make the penalty for running off the green more palatable, so more players would go for it. And those that hit a 90% shot wouldn't get punished as badly as those that hit a fat duffer.
So if your Maw came home having had a sex change, you'd be happy with that?
You wouldn't think it a little excessive?
FourPutt
Head Pro
But that is part of the risk of going for a pin that is tight-ish to the front left of that green. There might not be the risk-reward of going for it in two, like you say, but it's there with the pin position. It was a sucker pin and any miss more than a foot or so to the left with spin was going in the water.
Had it not been a playoff with Luke so close to the flag, he probably wouldn't have took that shot on, it was too high risk. Unfortunately for him, Luke got to go first and put the pressure on and on this occasion, Lee couldn't pull off the shot required.
Manassero going into the rough on the right is different completely. For one thing, he didn't do it in a playoff so there was not the same pressure and no, you are correct, not the same punishment. Nor should there be. A playoff is a high-pressure, high-stakes decider played over a few as 3 or 4 shots, the penalty for a slight miss with the approach shot is ALWAYS going to be higher. Look at the 18th (i think) at Celtic Manor, where when they went for it in two, if they didn't make it, they rolled back off the false front to the green and often into the water. Risk-reward on a par 5 doesn't always mean being able to go for it in 2, it can be as simple as a bitch of a pin position. Luke went for it in the pressure of a playoff and managed to pull it off, but it could have easily gone the other way, he could have missed and gone in the water and Lee could have played to the middle of the green.
Whether there is a fairer way to decide a tournament than a one hole playoff is another matter, but I don't think that the hole itself makes a whole lot of difference.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Why should he have a realistic chance of holing a chip? Plain and simple, he messed up his approach, he messed up the hole. You don't get 2nd chances in a play-off.
If....
Lee had driven the ball better on the last hole he'd have had the chance to go for the green and put Luke under pressure. He didn't.
Luke and Lee had very similar shots into the green. If the (now ex) World Number 1 can't at least match the shot he's just seen played then he doesn't get to win.
Shots count the same no matter where or when they're played.
These guys are the best in the world. They know the course, the hole. Lee knew the consequences of going long, he could have played a little shorter. He was put under pressure by a good shot from Luke. Lee tried to get as close as possible but overcooked it.
Where's the problem?
Westwood messed up a straight-forward wedge approach. He messed it up.
bobmac
Major Champion
A game of golf between two people none of us know, which happened hundreds of miles away from most of us, for which they were very well paid and it sparks off this arguement.
You can see how wars start.
You can see how wars start.
Besides, we're debating, at least we haven't started calling people names yet! 
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
I think 18 was a poor hole before and I don't like the design of the changes. I think the idea behind having water is good but I don't like the way they have designed it - remember that this is a members course for the rest of the year not for TV viewing over 4 days. I doubt many members or guests will go for it. I think the water should be 10 or 20 yards back and, if they wanted, add an extra bunker to toughen the approach.
Ethan
Money List Winner
I agree that the redesign on 18 is ill-conceived. I think Richard Caring had been watching The Players when he decided on that.
But many events are settled by the odd shot, or by an error, so why not during a play-off. Westwood knew there was a risk he could spin the ball back, and he accepted that when he hit the shot.
But many events are settled by the odd shot, or by an error, so why not during a play-off. Westwood knew there was a risk he could spin the ball back, and he accepted that when he hit the shot.
goldenbare
Challenge Tour Pro
All these ifs and buts and who messed up the 18th to lose it, sounds like lke our bar after a monthly medal.
Thats what golf is all about.
Anybody seen fair mentioned in the rule book?
Thats what golf is all about.
Anybody seen fair mentioned in the rule book?
